Writing is a feedback loop. You observe something, and then you think about it. Then you think about it, and your brain tells you what you think about it—but not all the way. So you attempt to vomit that primordial soup of words out of your head in the hopes that they’ll form on the page and reach the next stage of evolution—but the first draft is usually just a slug with one arm, three eyes, and an overbite. So you put those words back into your brain, microwave them in your subconscious, and vomit again. If you’re lucky, the creature will sprout another arm.

But as any parent knows, at a certain point, you get sick of your child. So, very, very, fucking sick of them. You need a break. You’ve exhausted your patience of their bed wetting and constant bitching about the injustice of their ice cream portions in comparison to those ice cream portions of their sibling. You’re convinced that whatever beast is crawling around in your living room isn’t anything resembling a sentient being worthy of your pride and respect. They are just some offspring that bastardized all your hard work and best intentions. Your masterpiece is not before you. You don’t know what that thing is, really.

So, out of ideas of your own, you push the amorphous blob onto someone else. You can’t just give up on it, whatever the end state of this experiment is, you have to see it through. But you need someone else to watch it for a little bit, while you go off and question your worth as a creative and wonder why you ever thought you were worthy of attempting to make a meaningful creation.

But sometimes, when the babysitter reports back, you get a little bit of encouragement. They kind of enjoyed their time with your child. All those traits that drive you nuts because you spend so much time living with them without any break—well when this other person interacted with them for the first time, they thought they were kind of fun. It wasn’t a bad way to spend their afternoon.

And then you realize, you kind of missed your creature.

And you get back to work, hoping it sprouts a leg this time.

January 18th, 2025

Dear Mr. Beaty,

Having slayed some other books first, I have begun slaying your book. My first book report regarding your inviting tome:

I’m a hunter, too (or was), though I hunted with my trusty bow and arrows instead of scatter gun and, like you, I froze and froze—for decades. I recall being perched up in a tree one particularly wicked December morning and began wondering what all the sane people in Nebraska were doing. Though I’m not smart and you can’t make me, I arrived at the conclusion that all the sane people in Nebraska were tucked in their warm beds while I was freezing 15 feet up in a tree with the north wind howling in my face and questioning my limited sanity.

One time a large buck walked by me at 10 yards. I was much too cold to draw my bow and just barely sane enough to realize that if I killed him I would have to clean him which required getting my hands wet with his blood. I thought the best of it and let him live. He sauntered away as though he was enjoying the clobbering northwest wind that was busy lashing, punishing, and freezing me.

Those were the good old days of freezing. Now I’m old and can’t do cold like I used to be able to do when I was a much younger and much dumber guy who convinced my dumb self that if I dressed warm enough that I could conquer the bitter cold, the biting northwest wind. I, of course, was dumber than an old cedar fence post when I was a younger man. One does not ever conquer the Nebraska cold; conquers you.

Lady luck shone on me a few times and I let the air out of a couple large box whose stuffed heads adored my living room walls. When I stare at them like I’m doing right now (and typing blindly), I’m reminded how lucky I was and am: I have an understanding wife who permits those heads to stare down at her while she plays solitaire on her Googler-enabled device. Think of it this way: how many homes have you been in with deer heads perched on the living room wall and not perched on the garage wall?

Sadly, I lost my deer hunting honey hole a few years ago. Some guy pays thousands and thousands of dollars each year to hunt my old stomping grounds. When I think about him, I hope he’s getting every freezing dollar bill worth of enjoyment. While he’s freezing and hoping a giant buck will saunter by looking for a hot doe, I’m home tucked snugly in a warm bed. When I wake up, I pour myself a hot cup of coffee, sit in my recliner, and then watch YouTube videos of other guys sitting in freezing in trees. That’s what old people do: live vicariously through young dumb people.

Much obliged,

Haywood

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Share By C.S. Beaty

Today’s guest is a mentor and hero of mine who convinced me to give up on a career

(00:00:36):

as a structural engineer in order to follow him to the dark side of sales.

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We talk about that along with a bunch of his favorite stories from a three-decade

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career in corporate leadership,

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including his interactions with Walter Scott,

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Tommy Frazier,

(00:00:50):

Indomitian Sioux,

(00:00:51):

Warren Sapp,

(00:00:52):

Donald Trump,

(00:00:53):

and King Kong.

(00:00:55):

I’m very excited to present Gunther DeVanus.

(00:01:01):

So you can do like,

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if you just wanted this particular type of mic,

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you can plug straight into your laptop.

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So you could like get started for like a couple hundred bucks.

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How do you find time to do all this crap?

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Seriously.

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I don’t know.

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I just, well, I don’t go into the office anymore.

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Yeah, that’s nice.

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Yeah.

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So before I forget, so I was at Prep Today yesterday and today, and I’m coming back in the fall.

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And I’m bringing Dean Perez and Tony Villan, do you know who that is?

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Tony Villan’s on our board.

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He’s an ex-Husker player, was on the 94-95 championship team, so he wears a big championship.

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So I took my grandson to the Colorado-Nebraska game two years ago when we beat them in Lincoln.

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My grandson lives in the shadow of Boulder.

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He’s taking basketball camps on campus.

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So he was kind of a Colorado fan.

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So I said, I got to fix this.

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It was a night game.

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Before the night game, I toured him through the new Keywood Hall building.

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I haven’t been in that yet, but I saw it under construction.

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Dean Perez’s office is on the top floor of that thing.

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I forget how many stories it is.

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He’s got a balcony.

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By C.S.

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Beaty

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But he’s got this big ring on it.

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I see Owen staring at his ring.

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Yeah.

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Because he’s got to be what?

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Is he 18 yet?

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No, no.

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He’s like, he just turned 13.

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13.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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So he was, and at that time he was 11.

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Okay.

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So he’s staring at Belen’s ring and I said, it’s a pretty cool ring, huh?

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Owen?

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And he goes, yeah, that’s really cool.

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He said, what is, what kind of ring is it?

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And so Tony takes it off and Tony’s got big fingers so he gives it to Owen.

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He says, put it on.

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So Owen puts it on.

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Big red

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Yeah.

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Jewel in there.

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National Championship.

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And Owen goes, wow, how did you get this?

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And he explained it to him.

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He goes, I have two of those.

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And then Owen goes like, wow.

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And he goes, you know what else I have?

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And he says, no.

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He says, I have a Super Bowl ring, too.

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Oh, wow.

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But anyway, I’m bringing him, Tony Villan, and Perez to prep.

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But I’d love to have you come because I’m pitching Nebraska Engineering.

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And

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Most of the kids that go to prep, 99.9% of them all go to college.

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You can’t go to, I mean, it’s called Creighton Prep, prep you for college.

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And you have to take an entrance exam and all this other crap.

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But,

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so,

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a bunch,

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and they’re really,

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their robotics team,

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their high school robotics team came in fourth in the world.

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Did they go to the, they have like a national competition in Iowa.

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This was international.

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Oh, international, yeah.

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They came in fourth in the world.

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That’s crazy, yeah.

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And the kid that leads the team is,

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He’s been offered to go to Harvard and all these other places.

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And a lot of those kids that graduate from there,

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their parents have money,

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which my parents never had.

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I had to take a bus up there.

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But anyway, so a lot of them go to Ivy League schools or Notre Dame.

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And Perez graduated from Notre Dame.

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Did you know that?

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No.

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So Dean Perez has got his undergraduate and his Ph.D. from University of Notre Dame.

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Okay.

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He has Notre Dame football tickets, season tickets.

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Oh, come on.

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No, and he goes to the games.

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I mean, he’s a huge Notre Dame fan.

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Well, there’s more to root for than Nebraska at the moment.

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Yeah, yeah.

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So,

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but anyway,

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so my pitch to these kids is going to be,

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so I know a lot of you have parents that can afford to go to these great schools

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like Notre Dame and Carnegie Mellon and places like that.

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I said, but in my case, when I went to school, my parents didn’t have that kind of money.

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And maybe some of your parents don’t have that kind of money.

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And there’s a golden, there’s a gem of a school right here in Omaha and also in Lincoln.

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And so

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I’d like to pitch Nebraska engineering in general,

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and I’d like to have you talk about going to school here.

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Sure.

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I mean, you’re not from Omaha.

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No.

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Right?

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And how your career’s just launched off.

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Tell them some of the cool things you’ve done.

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I’ve been to Guam, this and that, you know.

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Because we’re just not getting our fair share of those kids.

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What put the icing on the cake for me is, you know, I was a kid from Grand Island.

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I knew about the engineering program here.

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I didn’t know much, but I met, if you remember...

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You recorded?

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Yeah, we’ve been recording for a while.

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This is good grade A content, if I can get my microphone to stop moving.

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If you remember Alma Ramirez,

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she was the main recruiter at,

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for Peter Kiewen Institute,

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for all the College of Engineering in Omaha.

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Her father-in-law is actually Johnny Rogers.

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She’s Alma Ramirez Rogers.

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Oh, really?

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So the Rogers is her, Johnny Rogers is her father-in-law.

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But she was the first person who told me about the AE program,

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the architectural engineering program.

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And the way she sold it was,

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She’s like, what do you want to go to school for?

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I’m like, well, I’m leaning towards engineering, but I don’t really know what.

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She’s like,

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oh,

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you go to architecture engineering,

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you don’t have to know what you’re going to do.

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I’m like, really?

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And so she kind of explained how it works.

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And I was like, we don’t want you to declare until your junior year.

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So then I went to the visit at PKI, the Peter Keywood Institute Open House.

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And then I was like, I was sold.

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It was fairly new then.

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Yeah, it was.

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So I think the building opened around, it was less than 10 years old.

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So my freshman year was the 10-year anniversary of the architecture engineering program.

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And I think it was the first year,

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I don’t know if the building was built yet or not,

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but it might have been.

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But yeah, I was about 10 years old.

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I mean,

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and I will say I did a visit at Lincoln and part of the main reason I didn’t go to

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Lincoln is because I thought their engineering building was terrible.

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I mean, compared to the two.

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You should see this new one.

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Yeah, but I’m sure the new one would have been, you know, it’s completely different.

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And that program has grown because of that new building.

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Yeah, I bet.

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So did you ever hear the story about how that school was started up, PKI started?

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I mean, vaguely, you hear rumors about it.

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So I was on the board, worked at Johnson Controls.

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One day I’m in Kansas City and I get a call.

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It’s from a lady named Winnie Callahan.

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I knew who she was.

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So she was the outgoing director when I came in.

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So people talked about Winnie, but I never met her.

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So Winnie,

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very aggressively energetic,

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aggressive energy about trying to make that school happen because it was in its

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infancy.

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Sure.

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And so I get a call from her.

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I’m at my desk in Kansas City and she says, hey, Walter Scott would like to talk to you.

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I said, really?

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He said, yeah.

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Wouldn’t it be a good time?

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So we set up a time and Walter calls me and he says, hey, I’d like to go to Milwaukee.

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Can you set up a meeting with your CEO?

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And the CEO at that time was Alex Mulneroli, a personal friend of mine.

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We grew up together in the company.

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Well,

(00:08:07):

and this is back when Johnson Controls was like,

(00:08:10):

I would always tell people that had never heard of us,

(00:08:12):

we are one ahead of the Disney Corporation on the Fortune 500 list.

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And we were actually at Fortune 100.

(00:08:17):

Yeah, it was.

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Well, yeah, Disney was like 76 and we were like 77 or 75.

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It was, you look at the list and I’d always point out like, look where Disney is.

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Oh yeah, we’re ahead of Disney.

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Yeah.

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We’ve spun off a lot of those companies.

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But anyway, so

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So Walter says, can you set up a meeting with your CEO?

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And I said, yeah, I suppose.

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I said, what do you want to talk to me about?

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And he goes,

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I’d like to talk to him about naming rights for our new architectural engineering

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school.

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I said, really?

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And I was on the board.

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And he said, yeah.

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He said, do you think they’d be interested?

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I said, I don’t know.

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I said, if we can position something in it for Johnson, it might be.

(00:09:00):

So long story short, they set up the meeting.

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I set up the meeting with Alex and we fly up there.

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So I’m in Kansas City.

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Walter picks me up in his corporate, in his jet, in Kansas City.

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Because he was the, was he the CEO of Keywood at the time?

(00:09:16):

He probably just retired.

(00:09:17):

I can’t remember if he either just recently retired or was still the CEO.

(00:09:21):

But he’s a billionaire.

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I mean, he owns half, his name was on half the things in Omaha.

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Were you a Scott Scholar?

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Yeah, I was a Scott Scholar.

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Yeah, so he paid for all my school.

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He paid for Ryan’s school.

(00:09:30):

Yeah,

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I met him a couple of times and it was just,

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you know,

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I have a picture of me with him and his

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His wife,

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who both of them have since passed away in my office,

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my home office,

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a picture of the three of us.

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Yeah, it was just, it was a, it was an honor.

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Yeah, just being an affiliate with the guy.

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So they picked me up in Kansas City and fly on his jet to Milwaukee.

(00:09:49):

Now, as we’re, as we, and on that jet was Ken West from DLR, Dr.

(00:09:56):

Waters, Winnie Callahan, and a couple other Nebraska dignitaries.

(00:10:01):

There’s a small group of us, like six or eight of us.

(00:10:03):

And so Ronald Walters flying to Milwaukee.

(00:10:06):

And Walter was kind of saying, you know, bragging about his plane, how nice it is.

(00:10:10):

And I had just flown a bunch of customers like a couple months earlier on Johnson’s

(00:10:15):

plane,

(00:10:15):

which goes to China.

(00:10:19):

And I didn’t want to tell him that.

(00:10:24):

But it was still nice.

(00:10:25):

So we fly into Milwaukee and meet with Alex and other dignitaries at Johnson Controls.

(00:10:35):

When he does a pitch about...

(00:10:37):

It was going to be called the Johnson Controls School of Architectural Engineering

(00:10:41):

and Construction.

(00:10:42):

Did you know that?

(00:10:43):

I think you told me this story before.

(00:10:44):

But yeah,

(00:10:45):

it’s just so funny because it’s now the Durham School and it’s just like,

(00:10:48):

how different.

(00:10:49):

Yeah.

(00:10:51):

So long story short, they...

(00:10:54):

We leave and a couple days go by and I get a call from Max.

(00:10:58):

He says, Gunther, you know, we’re really impressed with that school.

(00:11:02):

We don’t really want to spend the money to have naming rights, but we will donate.

(00:11:06):

They donated like $100,000 to PKI and then within a few months of that it became

(00:11:13):

the Durham School of Architectural Engineering.

(00:11:16):

I don’t know what it is.

(00:11:17):

I remember somebody telling me the Durham School endowment before and it’s insane.

(00:11:21):

It’s something like

(00:11:23):

I don’t know the exact figures,

(00:11:24):

but I remember they said like the endowment sheds like a million dollars a year.

(00:11:27):

It’s just crazy.

(00:11:28):

You know, whatever it is.

(00:11:29):

So Ryan’s told me that as a Scott scholar, he got to visit Walter’s party house.

(00:11:36):

Yeah.

(00:11:36):

Hunting lodge or whatever.

(00:11:37):

Yeah.

(00:11:38):

So they call it the bar.

(00:11:39):

I went there four times.

(00:11:40):

He would have a party every year and it’s just this party house.

(00:11:43):

They call it the barn and he had his own like embossed napkins that just say the

(00:11:47):

bar and like stamped on the bottom.

(00:11:49):

But yeah,

(00:11:50):

he didn’t live there,

(00:11:50):

but it was a functional,

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I mean,

(00:11:52):

relatively a functional barn,

(00:11:54):

but like he had a giant horse showing like track in the middle of it.

(00:11:58):

And so like you would go in and there’s,

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you know,

(00:12:00):

it’s in the middle of kind of,

(00:12:01):

it feels like the middle of North,

(00:12:02):

but far North Omaha.

(00:12:04):

So if you go like 72nd Street North,

(00:12:06):

eventually you kind of run into this area where there’s not really kind of almost

(00:12:09):

up towards Blair and you,

(00:12:11):

there’s this long meandering driveway and you see horses like fields with horses

(00:12:14):

and those are all his,

(00:12:15):

but then this house,

(00:12:16):

it’s just this giant property.

(00:12:19):

Like a lodge?

(00:12:19):

Yeah, kind of, but it’s a little more modern.

(00:12:21):

It doesn’t really have a rustic vibe.

(00:12:23):

It’s fairly modern looking.

(00:12:26):

But like you walk in the first thing you see is this giant bar and he hires a

(00:12:29):

bartender so he would have all the Scott Scholars for all four years there once a

(00:12:32):

year and at that point it’s probably about 80 of us or so each Scott Scholar class

(00:12:37):

had about 25 of us and then they would always you know you get it’s a four year

(00:12:40):

renewed scholarship so he’d invite all of us and so there’s probably about I think

(00:12:45):

about 80 of us there and then you’d have the first thing you do when you walk in

(00:12:50):

you see this giant open bar and it has a bartender they’re making you I mean all

(00:12:53):

non-alcoholic drinks because we’re all college students but

(00:12:55):

One of my favorite memories of that was they had a shoe, just a big old shoe.

(00:12:59):

And it was a Shaquille O’Neal shoe that was autographed by Shaquille O’Neal.

(00:13:03):

And they took a linen napkin and shoved it in there and kind of forced it in there.

(00:13:07):

And they filled it up with pretzels.

(00:13:09):

So we’re all eating out of Shaquille O’Neal’s shoe while waiting for our Roy Rogers

(00:13:14):

or Shirley Temple or whatever it was.

(00:13:16):

Walter Scott was so iconic.

(00:13:17):

I mean, what a great guy.

(00:13:19):

And then he would take every single,

(00:13:20):

so like I said,

(00:13:20):

there’s about 80 of us,

(00:13:21):

but if you’re a freshman,

(00:13:23):

he made sure that you got a one-on-one picture with him and his wife for every

(00:13:26):

single one.

(00:13:27):

So it was about,

(00:13:27):

you know,

(00:13:28):

and you take about a minute to two minutes with each individual person.

(00:13:31):

So, you know, he would spend probably about half an hour, 45 minutes.

(00:13:34):

Just in a photo line.

(00:13:35):

And then after that, he would take a group photo with everyone.

(00:13:38):

So every single Scott Scholar got a personalized photo with him with this really

(00:13:42):

nice,

(00:13:42):

I still have mine too,

(00:13:43):

a gold leaf certificate autographed by him.

(00:13:46):

And then, you know, he shook his hand and everything.

(00:13:47):

And then we got this group photo.

(00:13:49):

So yeah, I still have mine in my office.

(00:13:51):

I’ll show it to you later.

(00:13:52):

And then you would have a

(00:13:54):

This big barn would have all this random memorabilia like he had this picture of

(00:13:58):

like they went and saw Elton John just like his autograph like whatever was poster

(00:14:01):

of Elton John and their ticket stubs and random stuff he just kind of accumulated

(00:14:06):

and then he the same meal every single year he would have tacos because he said he

(00:14:11):

quotes likes Mexican food he’d like get this little speech and dilly bars

(00:14:15):

Yeah.

(00:14:16):

And I think it’s good.

(00:14:16):

Dairy Queen.

(00:14:17):

Yeah.

(00:14:17):

Yeah.

(00:14:18):

I mean, he was on the board for Berkshire Hathaway, which was the own Dairy Queen.

(00:14:21):

Yeah.

(00:14:21):

Yeah.

(00:14:21):

So I feel like maybe he’s just, you know, inflating a stock price buying dilly bars.

(00:14:24):

But yeah,

(00:14:24):

they would walk around with a thing of dilly bars,

(00:14:26):

just like at the,

(00:14:27):

if you ever go to the Berkshire Hathaway meeting,

(00:14:28):

they have dilly bars everywhere because Warren likes them.

(00:14:31):

But Walter liked them too.

(00:14:32):

So you just hand out just,

(00:14:33):

they would have these people,

(00:14:35):

these caterers and tuxedos walking around with things of dilly bars.

(00:14:38):

We’d all be eating dilly bars.

(00:14:39):

Yeah.

(00:14:40):

So two stories I want to share with you that resonate in my mind as we’ve been talking.

(00:14:46):

So on the flight on Walter’s jet from Kansas City to Milwaukee,

(00:14:51):

in that time period,

(00:14:52):

Frank Solich had just become the head coach at Nebraska within a year or two.

(00:14:57):

So this would have been like, because 99 is when they won the Big 12 Championships.

(00:15:01):

So probably around early 2000s or so.

(00:15:03):

Yeah, somewhere in that time frame.

(00:15:05):

But Solich was on the hot seat because we’d lost a couple games.

(00:15:08):

So...

(00:15:09):

I’m a huge Husker fan, so I’m trying to create conversation with Walter.

(00:15:15):

A bit multi-billionaire, right?

(00:15:16):

Yeah, what do you talk about?

(00:15:18):

Exactly.

(00:15:19):

And I’m sitting across from him on his jet.

(00:15:21):

I said, so Walter, are you a Husker fan?

(00:15:23):

He goes, oh, I’m an absolute Husker fan.

(00:15:26):

And at that time, Solich was on the hot seat.

(00:15:28):

I said, so what are your impressions of Frank Solich?

(00:15:32):

And his comment to me was, Frank needs to learn how to become more of a CEO.

(00:15:37):

Coming from one of the best CEOs in the... Yeah.

(00:15:40):

At least in the construction industry, yeah.

(00:15:42):

They were actually shipping Frank in from Lincoln to Omaha to meet with...

(00:15:46):

I can’t remember who the CEO of ConAgro was.

(00:15:49):

Oh, wow.

(00:15:49):

At that time?

(00:15:50):

Yeah, I don’t remember.

(00:15:50):

Because if you remember, Frank was the running backs coach.

(00:15:55):

Well, he was a fullback as a player.

(00:15:57):

Yeah.

(00:15:57):

And then, yeah, he became the running backs coach.

(00:15:59):

Under Osborne, but had never been the head coach.

(00:16:02):

He’d never even been a coordinator because Osborne called all the plays.

(00:16:05):

Exactly.

(00:16:06):

Yeah.

(00:16:06):

So...

(00:16:08):

So Walter tells me that we’re working on making Frank more of a CEO,

(00:16:14):

but we’re not sure he’s going to make it.

(00:16:16):

And I’m like, whoa.

(00:16:18):

And he says, but we’re not giving up yet, right?

(00:16:21):

So fast forward like four months, Frank gets fired.

(00:16:26):

And I’m convinced that Walter Scott and those that he hung around with had

(00:16:34):

something to do with Frank getting eliminated.

(00:16:37):

But can you imagine Chip and Frank from Lincoln, Omaha to meet with the ConAgra CEO?

(00:16:42):

No.

(00:16:43):

To learn how to be more all-encompassing in terms of your leadership.

(00:16:47):

Yeah,

(00:16:48):

and I mean,

(00:16:48):

I don’t know if Frank sold each other any more than anybody else,

(00:16:50):

but just thinking about his personality,

(00:16:52):

it’s like,

(00:16:53):

yeah,

(00:16:53):

you’re not really a CEO.

(00:16:55):

You’re more of a football guy, you know?

(00:16:56):

But I think Tom Osborne was the same way.

(00:16:58):

I thought he was just kind of a good old football guy, but... Yeah, it was interesting.

(00:17:01):

I mean, literally, I’ll never forget that conversation.

(00:17:06):

He shared with me that they were shipping Frank in to Omaha to meet him.

(00:17:12):

He needs to be more of a CEO and not the running backs coach.

(00:17:14):

Yeah, which he’d never been.

(00:17:16):

Like I said, he wasn’t even a play caller until he got the head coaching job.

(00:17:19):

And what that said to me was the political influences that money has on that

(00:17:24):

football program is incredible.

(00:17:26):

Yeah.

(00:17:27):

There’s got to be stuff like that where you just...

(00:17:30):

when they fired Frost and all of a sudden he had this five million dollar buyout

(00:17:33):

and people are saying just don’t worry about it you know like we’ll figure we’ll

(00:17:36):

take care of it if they had waited three more weeks they would yeah the buyout

(00:17:39):

would have been less yeah it would have been at least half I think I don’t remember

(00:17:42):

I don’t remember the numbers either but three more weeks yeah and they could have

(00:17:46):

they could have saved millions yeah and Trev Albers is just like I don’t worry

(00:17:49):

about it you know like they so you know if somebody was in his ear saying we’ll

(00:17:53):

take care of that we just he’s got to go you know

(00:17:55):

Yeah, so I’ll never forget that.

(00:17:57):

You know, I specifically asked Walter, so what’s your view on Frank?

(00:18:03):

I mean, do you think he’s a good coach or a bad coach?

(00:18:07):

And he went in this whole discussion about Frank Solich.

(00:18:11):

I thought, whoa, he’s obviously in the know, right?

(00:18:15):

It was really interesting.

(00:18:17):

So that was an unbelievable opportunity.

(00:18:20):

What a great man, you know?

(00:18:21):

I mean, just a great man.

(00:18:22):

I met him a few times at his thing.

(00:18:24):

There was one...

(00:18:25):

it was probably two years his wife had already passed so it was between his wife

(00:18:28):

passing and him passing he was at some event at the school and I was there as an

(00:18:32):

alum just probably doing a recruiting thing he’s just walking around you know he’s

(00:18:35):

got this posse you know just probably bodyguards but just people kind of handlers

(00:18:40):

and I just went up to him I mean he’s just walking I just went straight to him not

(00:18:43):

through his people and I just all these people just got like on edge like what’s

(00:18:46):

this guy doing approaching Walter Scott and I just

(00:18:49):

I very simply said hey I was a Scott scholar I just want to personally say thank

(00:18:52):

you I mean the impact you had I mean it literally changed my life so I just want to

(00:18:56):

shake your hand and he you know he’s like oh so we shook shook his hands and I

(00:18:59):

didn’t stick around I got in and got out but it was just it was it was such a cool

(00:19:04):

opportunity to give him a personal thanks and he passed away a couple years later

(00:19:07):

but I just I’ll never forget just seeing all these faces like why is this guy

(00:19:12):

coming up to him and talking to him and then they saw you know I gave my little

(00:19:15):

thank you and they

(00:19:18):

He was on the Durham School Board when I was on there for a number of years when he

(00:19:22):

retired from that.

(00:19:24):

The whole demeanor of our board changed because Walter was super aggressive when it

(00:19:31):

came to the financials.

(00:19:34):

Being a board member, we review the financials every quarter.

(00:19:38):

I felt sorry for the people that managed our accounting system.

(00:19:42):

Because Walter would invariably find some issue with some number in the data that

(00:19:49):

was presented to us.

(00:19:50):

And he’s now long since been off the board and several of us had tried to pick that up, right?

(00:19:57):

But, I mean, the guy has such a keen mind.

(00:20:00):

And,

(00:20:00):

you know,

(00:20:00):

he was always one to not shy away from challenging the state of Nebraska because we

(00:20:05):

would see the financials and why does the state drop their coverage of our costs by

(00:20:11):

X number of dollars and

(00:20:13):

Walter jump in there and say, we need to go see so-and-so because he was so connected.

(00:20:18):

And my sense was a lot of times he would make a call.

(00:20:21):

Oh, I bet he would.

(00:20:22):

Right to legislators and say, hey, you can’t cut these finances for engineering.

(00:20:27):

You’re killing the state of Nebraska.

(00:20:29):

You’re probably tuned in to,

(00:20:30):

because I’ve been on the board for over 20 years and universities have gone through

(00:20:34):

a lot of cuts.

(00:20:36):

Last year,

(00:20:37):

we’ve got to eliminate faculty and they were going to eliminate the School of

(00:20:42):

Architecture.

(00:20:43):

Just shut it down.

(00:20:44):

Thank God it didn’t happen because somebody jumped in and helped finance that.

(00:20:48):

But the university is under a lot of pressure right now because of state funding.

(00:20:53):

It’s been cut.

(00:20:54):

So speaking of talking to billionaires,

(00:20:56):

I remember you told me once you negotiated with Donald Trump and worked at Tampa?

(00:21:00):

Not directly with him.

(00:21:01):

What was that story?

(00:21:02):

So I was living in Tampa.

(00:21:04):

Johnson Controls did a project somewhere on the east coast of Florida.

(00:21:08):

And I

(00:21:09):

We finished the project.

(00:21:10):

The project was done.

(00:21:13):

To my knowledge, there were no issues.

(00:21:15):

But Trump was the developer.

(00:21:17):

Okay.

(00:21:18):

And we were looking to get our retainage.

(00:21:21):

I’ve heard stories about Trump’s negotiations.

(00:21:23):

Yeah.

(00:21:24):

So we’re trying to get it closed out on the project, get our final money retainage.

(00:21:29):

And the offer that came back from the developer,

(00:21:33):

that’s like 50 cents on the dollar or something.

(00:21:35):

Might be even less.

(00:21:36):

I don’t know.

(00:21:38):

And so immediately we responded and said, so what have we done wrong?

(00:21:42):

I mean, why would you take money away from us?

(00:21:45):

And the response was, we have no beef with your performance.

(00:21:50):

We just don’t think we should have paid so much to begin with.

(00:21:55):

And Trump was never in these project meetings to my knowledge.

(00:21:58):

And I personally was never, but my guys that worked for me were.

(00:22:03):

And Trump always had lawyers there.

(00:22:06):

So they kept wanting to negotiate for something less than a dollar for a dollar.

(00:22:12):

And we stood strong.

(00:22:13):

And if you continue to do this and hold our attention, we’ll disable the JC 8540 system.

(00:22:20):

So you won’t have any temperature controls in your building anymore.

(00:22:22):

No, exactly.

(00:22:24):

So, but that was really interesting.

(00:22:26):

The other place that,

(00:22:26):

that’s the only time I can remember where we had construction meetings where

(00:22:30):

lawyers were present.

(00:22:32):

Trump had lawyers there.

(00:22:33):

And then the other place was Disney.

(00:22:36):

We did a lot.

(00:22:37):

Yeah,

(00:22:37):

Disney always had,

(00:22:39):

my recollection was Disney had lawyers sit in on our project meetings,

(00:22:44):

right?

(00:22:44):

Where normally there’s construction people,

(00:22:46):

but Disney had a construction manager or two there,

(00:22:49):

but they always had a lawyer there.

(00:22:50):

Interesting.

(00:22:51):

And so it was, they were another really difficult client.

(00:22:54):

I think at Disney,

(00:22:55):

like all the secretive for like their intellectual property,

(00:22:58):

and I had friends that worked at Disneyland,

(00:22:59):

and I had,

(00:23:00):

when I was in high school,

(00:23:02):

our band went and played at Disneyland,

(00:23:04):

and you know,

(00:23:04):

so we had to go.

(00:23:04):

You were a band guy?

(00:23:05):

Oh, yeah.

(00:23:08):

Did you ever think about playing for NU?

(00:23:10):

I thought about it, yeah.

(00:23:12):

I thought about it.

(00:23:12):

Honestly, if I wouldn’t have gone to engineering in Omaha, I would have at least tried out.

(00:23:17):

But at the time, UNO’s band just wasn’t.

(00:23:21):

The time commitment for the perks of being involved in the band just weren’t there.

(00:23:26):

I remember my first day going to the dorms and seeing the band out practicing, whatever it was.

(00:23:30):

Early in the morning.

(00:23:31):

Yeah, I’m like, I’m done with this.

(00:23:33):

Now,

(00:23:33):

if I was in Lincoln,

(00:23:34):

it would have been worth it just to go to the games and have that experience,

(00:23:37):

but

(00:23:38):

I yeah that was that was a big factor in choosing to go to Omaha over Lincoln it’s

(00:23:43):

like well I can’t try out for the band but uh I had a I had some friends that were

(00:23:47):

in the band actually did you ever see the Jim Carrey movie Yes Man yeah or know

(00:23:50):

what it is so he goes to Jim Carrey the whole premise is he just has to say yes to

(00:23:55):

everyone so he has this girlfriend that like is real outgoing and adventurous

(00:23:59):

they’re like we’re gonna go to the very first plane that’s you know the very first

(00:24:02):

flight out that’s where we’re going it was to Lincoln Nebraska so we’re like all

(00:24:05):

right let’s go to Lincoln and

(00:24:06):

There’s a shot with Jim Carrey going to a Husker game.

(00:24:09):

And then they like pan across the crowd.

(00:24:11):

There’s one shot of the marching band and front and center.

(00:24:14):

Like,

(00:24:14):

you know,

(00:24:14):

for me to you,

(00:24:15):

there’s a guy playing the snare drum and that’s one of my best friends.

(00:24:18):

Oh, really?

(00:24:18):

He was our section leader in Grand Island.

(00:24:20):

And so, I mean, it’s a shot of the whole band, but he’s right there in this movie.

(00:24:23):

So I remember going, I knew they had a camp.

(00:24:25):

I didn’t know he was in the movie, but I knew they went to Lincoln in the movie.

(00:24:28):

And I’m at this theater going, that’s Andy!

(00:24:31):

Did you go to the same high school that Scott Frost went to?

(00:24:33):

No, he went to Wood River.

(00:24:35):

But the Disneyland thing, I remember when our high school band went, they call it backstage.

(00:24:40):

So it’s like they kind of treat everything at Disneyland like the outside of the

(00:24:44):

park is on stage and then you go backstage,

(00:24:46):

kind of like a theater type of environment.

(00:24:48):

And the underground environment there, do you know about that?

(00:24:51):

Very little.

(00:24:51):

But I just remember that was the only, we weren’t allowed to take pictures.

(00:24:53):

And I mean, it was, like you said, security wise, like we just

(00:24:57):

We got like ushered into one little room and that was it.

(00:25:00):

We couldn’t take pictures.

(00:25:01):

They’re real hardcore about that.

(00:25:03):

We got dressed.

(00:25:03):

They shipped us off there and just like everything was so tight knit.

(00:25:07):

And I have friends that worked at the park just for a summer gig,

(00:25:11):

you know,

(00:25:11):

and they still won’t,

(00:25:12):

you know,

(00:25:13):

they can’t talk about certain things.

(00:25:14):

I think they’re under NDAs and whatnot.

(00:25:15):

And there’s things like they coach them on how to answer certain questions.

(00:25:18):

Like if you ever ask anybody how many Mickeys there are,

(00:25:21):

they always say,

(00:25:21):

oh,

(00:25:21):

there’s only one Mickey.

(00:25:22):

Because they coordinate the person, the Mickey Mouse outfit.

(00:25:25):

There can only ever be one Mickey Mouse outfit out of the park at any given part in time.

(00:25:29):

And so the question is if he’s in a whatever, an Uncle Sam outfit or a jungle, whatever theme.

(00:25:35):

It’s just that there’s always ever one.

(00:25:37):

And if somebody asks you how many Mickeys are there,

(00:25:38):

they always say,

(00:25:39):

their coach just said,

(00:25:39):

oh,

(00:25:40):

there’s only one Mickey.

(00:25:41):

When I was in Florida, we did the Universal Studios Islands of Adventure.

(00:25:46):

That park’s awesome.

(00:25:47):

It was seven different venues within Universal.

(00:25:50):

It was being built in Florida.

(00:25:52):

And we were the constant.

(00:25:54):

So there were seven different general contractors.

(00:25:57):

We were those constant HVAC.

(00:26:00):

So each park had its own general.

(00:26:01):

They just contracted separately.

(00:26:03):

And that was like managing that was very difficult because each GC had a different

(00:26:09):

Well, yeah.

(00:26:10):

I’m sure they had different schedules and different, you know.

(00:26:13):

One of the cool things was,

(00:26:14):

so one of them was the King Kong Pavilion or whatever they called it.

(00:26:20):

And I can remember we put in the fire alarm system in all the pavilions,

(00:26:25):

but that one was a real challenge because if you’ve ever been in that facility,

(00:26:29):

King Kong is there.

(00:26:30):

He’s like,

(00:26:32):

You know, three stories tall.

(00:26:33):

He’s fighting airplanes, fires everywhere.

(00:26:36):

We had to put a fire alarm system in that looked for temperature and CO detection.

(00:26:40):

And so we ended up,

(00:26:43):

we couldn’t find a place to put the temperature,

(00:26:45):

fire temperature sensor in that venue because it kept setting it off because there

(00:26:51):

wasn’t really no fire other than the fires that were there for the exhibit,

(00:26:54):

right?

(00:26:54):

Yeah, of course.

(00:26:55):

So I can remember we decided to put the fire sensor under King Kong’s left armpit.

(00:27:03):

That was the only place we could put it where fires wouldn’t set the damn thing off.

(00:27:07):

You’re worried about body odor.

(00:27:09):

Exactly.

(00:27:10):

So it’s left armpit.

(00:27:11):

We put the fire sensor.

(00:27:13):

It was crazy.

(00:27:15):

Man,

(00:27:15):

I can’t imagine that coordination meeting trying to figure out where to...

(00:27:19):

We were the constant between all seven venues.

(00:27:22):

Universal Studios.

(00:27:23):

Well, that park is crazy because one was Dr. Seuss, another one was like...

(00:27:27):

They’re all different.

(00:27:28):

Yeah, they’re all different.

(00:27:29):

The King Kong venue because of the flames and fires that happened with that.

(00:27:33):

As he’s fighting these airplanes.

(00:27:34):

Yeah.

(00:27:35):

So, all right.

(00:27:35):

So you’re from, you’re born of South Omaha, right?

(00:27:37):

You always made the distinction, not Omaha, South Omaha.

(00:27:40):

Was it a different city when you were a kid still?

(00:27:42):

No, it was at one point in time in its history.

(00:27:44):

Yeah.

(00:27:45):

I remember Warren Buffett.

(00:27:46):

That was his thing.

(00:27:47):

He was from,

(00:27:48):

if he wasn’t from South Omaha,

(00:27:49):

he at least got to start like selling newspapers to the people at South Omaha.

(00:27:54):

That could be.

(00:27:54):

I’m not familiar with that.

(00:27:56):

But at one point in time, South Omaha was its own city.

(00:27:59):

But, uh,

(00:28:00):

I’m not exactly sure when it became integrated into Omaha, kind of like Elkhorn now.

(00:28:05):

But yeah, it was basic.

(00:28:07):

Basically, when I when I grew up was meatpacking plant.

(00:28:10):

We’re the world’s largest stockyards.

(00:28:12):

I laugh and kid my wife’s wife and I’ve been married 52 years.

(00:28:16):

Right.

(00:28:17):

Dated her in high school at Creighton Prep and she went to Mercy, which is the all girls.

(00:28:21):

I was going to say, how’d you meet your wife in high school?

(00:28:23):

Go to all boys school.

(00:28:25):

And I dated some other girls in high school.

(00:28:27):

And we lived within, we lived on 33rd and T Street, six or eight blocks from the stockyards.

(00:28:32):

And when the wind blows south, the whole neighborhood smelled like the stockyards.

(00:28:36):

Manure.

(00:28:37):

Yeah.

(00:28:37):

So I would bring home dates from,

(00:28:40):

I dated a girl from Benson High School and bring her home to meet my folks.

(00:28:45):

And she’d go, man, it really smells bad here.

(00:28:50):

And I go, yeah, that’s just part of living here.

(00:28:53):

My dad worked in a meatpacking plant.

(00:28:55):

So that dating didn’t work out, right?

(00:28:58):

You had to go to their place, huh?

(00:28:59):

Yeah.

(00:28:59):

My wife, Judy, she’s a Polish descent.

(00:29:02):

So her grandparents were Polish immigrants.

(00:29:05):

My parents were Lithuanian German immigrants.

(00:29:08):

So I’ll never forget bringing her home to meet my folks and never complained about

(00:29:13):

the smell because she was from South Omaha.

(00:29:15):

This is the one.

(00:29:16):

Yeah.

(00:29:16):

Well, and the other thing was my father never spoke English.

(00:29:19):

He spoke Lithuanian because our entire family

(00:29:22):

St. Anthony’s Parish Community was all Lithuanian.

(00:29:25):

St.

(00:29:25):

Anthony’s would sponsor people from refugee camps in Europe after World War II to

(00:29:30):

come to the U.S.

(00:29:31):

You had to have a sponsor to come.

(00:29:33):

And so our whole neighborhood was Lithuanian.

(00:29:36):

We did Catholic Mass in Lithuanian.

(00:29:39):

I went to grade school at St.

(00:29:40):

Anthony’s and we did,

(00:29:41):

we’d sing the U.S.

(00:29:43):

National Anthem and we sing the Lithuanian National Anthem.

(00:29:45):

Can you speak Lithuanian?

(00:29:47):

I was really fluent because my dad, that’s the only way I could speak to him.

(00:29:50):

But my father has passed away like 25 years ago, so I haven’t spoken it.

(00:29:55):

Now, I’m actually taking an online course to refresh my Lithuanian.

(00:30:00):

It’s coming back really quick.

(00:30:01):

That’s the thing about language I’ve learned even just having kids that spoke Spanish.

(00:30:06):

It’s all in there somewhere.

(00:30:07):

You just have to refresh it.

(00:30:10):

My mother was German.

(00:30:12):

So my father fled the Soviet Union

(00:30:15):

I mean, fled Lithuania when the Soviet Union invaded Lithuania and took it over.

(00:30:20):

And he was in his 20s at the time.

(00:30:22):

And men in their 20s in Lithuania at that time tried to resist the Soviet invasion.

(00:30:28):

And the Soviets had tanks and armament.

(00:30:31):

Lithuanians had sticks and they didn’t have much ammunition.

(00:30:35):

So when it became obvious that the Soviets were going to succeed in taking over

(00:30:41):

Lithuania,

(00:30:42):

my grandfather said to my father,

(00:30:45):

You need to leave.

(00:30:45):

Because if they capture you, you’re going to be put in a prison in Siberia.

(00:30:50):

So my father fled Lithuania and went to a refugee camp in Germany.

(00:30:55):

This is right after World War II.

(00:30:57):

And the refugee camp was managed by the United States Army.

(00:31:01):

And my father lived in that refugee camp for four years.

(00:31:04):

He met my mother.

(00:31:05):

My mother was a cook in this refugee camp.

(00:31:08):

She was German.

(00:31:09):

So that explains my name, right?

(00:31:10):

My first name is German.

(00:31:11):

My last name is Lithuania.

(00:31:13):

And so...

(00:31:14):

So they met there and they waited three years to immigrate to the United States.

(00:31:19):

You had to have a sponsor to immigrate to the U.S. after World War II.

(00:31:23):

And St. Anthony’s Parish here in South Omaha sponsored Lithuanians to come to the U.S.

(00:31:29):

So our whole neighborhood is Lithuanian.

(00:31:31):

So that’s how they got here and was born in South Omaha.

(00:31:34):

And so I make the distinction only because the culture in South Omaha,

(00:31:38):

there’s like a four-mile square area of South Omaha that’s Catholic.

(00:31:44):

St.

(00:31:44):

Anthony was Lithuanian,

(00:31:45):

St.

(00:31:45):

Stanislaus within flocks was Polish,

(00:31:48):

St.

(00:31:49):

Peter Paul was Croatian,

(00:31:51):

St.

(00:31:51):

Mary’s was Irish.

(00:31:52):

There’s like 10 Catholic churches within some small square mile area,

(00:31:57):

all ethnic,

(00:31:58):

that primarily were made up of immigrants.

(00:32:02):

Was it all around like the same kind of thing post-World War II?

(00:32:06):

I believe so, yeah.

(00:32:06):

Sponsoring just different parts of the country?

(00:32:08):

My recollection.

(00:32:09):

Different, I guess, countries.

(00:32:11):

Now today,

(00:32:11):

if you went to,

(00:32:12):

so the dioceses of the Catholic Church here in Omaha has since shut down St.

(00:32:18):

Anthony’s.

(00:32:19):

It’s the parish I grew up in.

(00:32:20):

As president of the Altar Boys, I mean, just gave me a great education.

(00:32:23):

And so today that neighborhood is mostly Hispanic.

(00:32:26):

Yeah, we go there.

(00:32:27):

There’s an amazing ice cream place.

(00:32:30):

I take my kids there all the time.

(00:32:31):

If you want great Mexican food, South Belmont is a place to go.

(00:32:34):

Oh, yeah.

(00:32:35):

You can’t compete.

(00:32:35):

Yeah, so it’s just amazing how that’s all changed.

(00:32:38):

And the Lithuanian Bakery, have you ever heard of that?

(00:32:41):

It’s on Pacific Street.

(00:32:44):

So that’s the Muscavich’s family that when I was a kid,

(00:32:47):

they started to make bread in the basement,

(00:32:50):

their basement.

(00:32:50):

When you go into their house, the whole house smelled like yeast.

(00:32:54):

But they started to make bread in the basement and they sell it to the neighborhood.

(00:32:59):

And from that,

(00:33:00):

it became so popular,

(00:33:01):

they decided to open up their own bakery,

(00:33:03):

which is on 33rd Avenue and Q Street,

(00:33:06):

the original one.

(00:33:08):

And now they’re out on Pacific Street.

(00:33:10):

But they ship their torts all over the world.

(00:33:14):

I’ve had them, yeah.

(00:33:14):

I think I’ve had them in like, I’m pretty sure I’ve gone to like Minnesota.

(00:33:19):

My sister lives up there and

(00:33:20):

had a tort there from the Lithuanian bakery in Omaha.

(00:33:23):

It started in their basement.

(00:33:24):

That’s crazy.

(00:33:26):

And so Miscavich’s family started that.

(00:33:30):

Within the Lithuanian community of St. Anthony’s, they were pretty prominent.

(00:33:34):

So did everyone go to Creighton Prep then?

(00:33:37):

No.

(00:33:38):

So when it came time to graduate St.

(00:33:41):

Anthony’s grade school,

(00:33:42):

eighth grade,

(00:33:42):

I’m leaving to go to high school.

(00:33:44):

And most of my friends went to either South High School

(00:33:49):

Or Ryan High School, which doesn’t exist anymore.

(00:33:51):

Not Brian.

(00:33:52):

Not Brian.

(00:33:53):

It was a Catholic school, and it has since closed down.

(00:33:57):

And so I did not want to go to Creighton Prep.

(00:34:00):

So Al Muscavages, the senior boy in that family, went to Creighton Prep.

(00:34:07):

And the Muscavages family, and he played for Nebraska.

(00:34:11):

He played for Prep.

(00:34:12):

He played for Nebraska.

(00:34:13):

He was a great football lineman.

(00:34:16):

Just awesome.

(00:34:17):

And I don’t know how many years he played for Nebraska,

(00:34:19):

but he was like all state and all that stuff.

(00:34:22):

So the word had gotten through our community that the best place to get a Catholic

(00:34:26):

education for boys was Creighton Prep.

(00:34:30):

And it was expensive back then.

(00:34:33):

I just asked today, what’s the tuition here?

(00:34:36):

$18,000 a year.

(00:34:38):

That’s more expensive than UNO.

(00:34:40):

Exactly.

(00:34:40):

You go to college for less.

(00:34:41):

Yeah.

(00:34:43):

When I went, it was $450 a semester, so $900 a year.

(00:34:48):

And I used to have to work the switchboard in a Jesuit priest residency to reduce

(00:34:54):

some of my tuition.

(00:34:56):

That was like a student job that they had?

(00:35:00):

Yeah, to help relieve some of the costs.

(00:35:04):

So I wanted to either go to Ryan or South because that’s where all my friends were going.

(00:35:08):

And my parents said,

(00:35:09):

no,

(00:35:09):

you’re going to get the best education we can provide,

(00:35:12):

even though they couldn’t afford it.

(00:35:14):

And you’re going to prep.

(00:35:15):

And so we didn’t have a car.

(00:35:17):

And I would take a city bus from South Omaha to downtown Omaha and then transfer

(00:35:23):

from a bus there to the crossroads.

(00:35:25):

Crossroads was 72nd and Dodge.

(00:35:27):

And then I would walk like the three-quarters of a mile from 72nd and Dodge to

(00:35:32):

72nd,

(00:35:33):

came around the street up to prep.

(00:35:35):

And my freshman year, that’s how I got to school.

(00:35:38):

How long did that take?

(00:35:40):

It was a few hours.

(00:35:41):

I mean, yeah.

(00:35:43):

My sophomore year,

(00:35:46):

I had a friend,

(00:35:47):

St.

(00:35:47):

Anthony’s grade school graduate,

(00:35:50):

that had his driver’s license and a car.

(00:35:52):

So my sophomore year on, I got rights because he had a license.

(00:35:56):

And our first car, my family’s first car came when I was 17.

(00:36:02):

My parents scrounged up enough money to help me get a driver’s license.

(00:36:05):

They bought a 1963 Chevrolet Impala.

(00:36:10):

It had rusted through the floorboard.

(00:36:15):

I put some floor mats in so you couldn’t see the road.

(00:36:19):

And it didn’t have air conditioning.

(00:36:20):

And no power steering.

(00:36:22):

Well, my first car didn’t have power steering, but it did have everything.

(00:36:25):

It had a floor.

(00:36:27):

But the exterior of it, I polished that thing like it was gold.

(00:36:32):

I waxed it.

(00:36:34):

Our neighbors used to tell me, Gunther, you’re going to rub off the paint.

(00:36:39):

You got to make up for the smell of cow shit when you’re taking a girl on a day.

(00:36:42):

Exactly.

(00:36:44):

Our family was so proud of that car, but that was our first car.

(00:36:48):

Did you always want to be a Husker then?

(00:36:50):

You didn’t go to Creighton, obviously.

(00:36:52):

Graduated in 71 from high school, and Nebraska won our first tournament.

(00:36:55):

So that’s a good year for a Husker fan.

(00:36:57):

First National Championship in 70 and 71.

(00:37:00):

So I became hooked.

(00:37:01):

And what’s interesting,

(00:37:03):

so my father,

(00:37:03):

who never spoke English and was Lithuanian,

(00:37:07):

became a huge Husker fan.

(00:37:09):

I mean, he could understand English, but he couldn’t speak it.

(00:37:11):

And so, I mean, he was glued to the TV.

(00:37:14):

And so I became that too over time.

(00:37:17):

People at John’s Controls would swear I have a Husker tattoo somewhere in my body.

(00:37:22):

And a John’s Controls tattoo, right?

(00:37:23):

Yeah, well, I could believe it.

(00:37:25):

But I don’t.

(00:37:26):

I look back on getting you to come to Johnson Controls.

(00:37:29):

I still can’t believe we pulled that out.

(00:37:31):

I can’t either most days.

(00:37:32):

Because you were kind of a civil focus.

(00:37:34):

I was structural engineer.

(00:37:35):

Structural, yeah.

(00:37:36):

So what I remember,

(00:37:37):

and I don’t know if I’ve ever talked you through my perspective,

(00:37:39):

or maybe if you could compare notes.

(00:37:41):

So I was a structural engineering emphasis.

(00:37:44):

So we have structural.

(00:37:45):

Which really fits with Johnson.

(00:37:46):

No, yeah.

(00:37:48):

So there’s mechanical,

(00:37:49):

electrical,

(00:37:50):

acoustics,

(00:37:51):

and really like any of those would make a better fit.

(00:37:54):

More sense.

(00:37:55):

More sense working for an HVAC manufacturer or low voltage company.

(00:37:59):

But I was structural, but I wasn’t really like a passionate structural person.

(00:38:02):

It’s just we,

(00:38:03):

the faculty at that time was very,

(00:38:05):

the quality of faculty and structures was not the same as it was in all the other

(00:38:09):

disciplines,

(00:38:09):

especially like mechanicals kind of at a little

(00:38:11):

So, there’s this professor, Dr. Gary Krause, who is this icon, and I took every single class.

(00:38:18):

He retired about three or four years ago, too.

(00:38:20):

But he was like,

(00:38:21):

him and Clarence Waters were my two guys,

(00:38:24):

and Waters didn’t teach as much as,

(00:38:26):

at the time,

(00:38:26):

he was the director of the Durham School,

(00:38:27):

so he had a very low teaching load,

(00:38:29):

because he was doing a lot of administrative things.

(00:38:31):

So, I took a couple classes, but not a lot.

(00:38:34):

But I took every single Gary Krause class,

(00:38:36):

and I just felt like I understood it better,

(00:38:38):

because he was such a great teacher.

(00:38:39):

Well,

(00:38:40):

I started to take a couple of other classes from other professors,

(00:38:42):

realized I didn’t actually like structural engineering that much.

(00:38:45):

It was just kind of the professor was that good.

(00:38:47):

I got to my senior year of the program,

(00:38:49):

not really sure what I wanted to do with it,

(00:38:51):

and just assumed,

(00:38:52):

all right,

(00:38:52):

I’ll become a structural engineer.

(00:38:53):

And we started that Architectural Engineering National Conference.

(00:38:57):

And I had known you for a while from just doing... Because I was on the board.

(00:39:00):

You were on the board and as a student I would do... You were super active.

(00:39:03):

Yeah, so we had like a student advisory board and I was the chair of that.

(00:39:07):

ASLAC?

(00:39:07):

Yeah, ASLAC.

(00:39:08):

Yeah, still around.

(00:39:09):

Architectural Engineering Student Leadership Advisory Committee I think is what it stands for.

(00:39:14):

ASLAC, yeah.

(00:39:15):

I had been involved for all four or five years I was in the engineering program.

(00:39:19):

I was on that,

(00:39:19):

but I was the chair for one year and different committee leads at different points

(00:39:24):

in time.

(00:39:24):

And so I remember going like presenting to that board and

(00:39:27):

Doing the student update, whatever.

(00:39:28):

So I got to know you.

(00:39:29):

I got to know a lot of people, but I got to know you pretty well.

(00:39:31):

And I remember going to that, we started an engineering conference, a national conference.

(00:39:35):

We got Johnson Controls through you to sponsor a bunch of stuff.

(00:39:38):

You guys did some tech sessions.

(00:39:40):

I remember you pulling me out in the hallway.

(00:39:42):

I was just walking around trying to make sure everybody’s like,

(00:39:44):

hey,

(00:39:44):

you got everything you need kind of thing.

(00:39:46):

And you just stopped me and said, hey, what are you gonna do when you graduate?

(00:39:48):

And I said, well, I don’t know.

(00:39:50):

And he’s like, you’d be a great fit for our company.

(00:39:52):

And put that idea out there, just kind of left it alone.

(00:39:54):

Well, you were so extroverted and so energetic.

(00:39:58):

And I knew you were structurally focused.

(00:40:01):

I thought, man, we need this kid.

(00:40:03):

Now that you’re with Johnson Controls, I mean, that’s what you need to be, right?

(00:40:07):

Energetic and outgoing and that type of thing to do the job you do.

(00:40:11):

And I thought it was a long shot, but we’ll give it a whirl.

(00:40:13):

Well, you had the benefit of...

(00:40:15):

So 2008 was my freshman year.

(00:40:19):

So the economy was in the tank.

(00:40:21):

And so when I took my tour to PKI...

(00:40:24):

Just the year before as a senior,

(00:40:26):

they had an entire third floor of PKI just to deal with all the internship requests

(00:40:30):

they had.

(00:40:31):

A guy’s full-time job was placing people in internships and entry-level jobs,

(00:40:35):

and they hired him,

(00:40:35):

and that’s all he did.

(00:40:36):

My freshman year, they fired him.

(00:40:37):

They laid off that entire group because there wasn’t that much demand anymore,

(00:40:41):

and just the market fell out,

(00:40:43):

especially construction,

(00:40:44):

right?

(00:40:45):

And so by the time I was graduating in 2013,

(00:40:48):

five years later,

(00:40:50):

the jobs were just starting,

(00:40:51):

and so I had

(00:40:53):

You know,

(00:40:53):

you would hear stories about people that came before us have five job offers,

(00:40:56):

they’d be comparing benefits.

(00:40:57):

I had an internship at DLR Group as a structural intern,

(00:41:01):

but no commitment to not only just,

(00:41:04):

I didn’t even have commitment to work during the school year because they didn’t

(00:41:06):

have enough work.

(00:41:08):

And now it’s like they hire a freshman and they have to work all year round for the

(00:41:11):

five years that they’re in school.

(00:41:12):

But I couldn’t get an internship in engineering proper until my senior year or

(00:41:17):

between my senior and grad school year.

(00:41:19):

And then during the school year,

(00:41:20):

they couldn’t justify keeping me on because they didn’t have enough projects.

(00:41:24):

And then you at a career fair,

(00:41:28):

I was writing an article that got published in the Journal of Architectural

(00:41:31):

Engineering.

(00:41:32):

We wanted you to be a

(00:41:34):

By C.S.

(00:41:34):

Beaty

(00:41:43):

And so we interviewed, so Clarence and I wrote, really I wrote it, but it was Clarence’s idea.

(00:41:47):

He said, here’s just kind of what I want.

(00:41:49):

You go ahead and write it.

(00:41:50):

I actually got some, I got college credit for writing this paper.

(00:41:54):

But we interviewed you and we interviewed Todd Feldman because you had- HDR.

(00:41:57):

From HDR, yeah.

(00:41:58):

So Todd was, he was a part-time faculty member.

(00:42:01):

So we want to talk a little bit about that experience of being a part-time faculty member.

(00:42:03):

We want to talk to you about the board and kind of how that works.

(00:42:07):

And I remember going up to you at the career fair because we’re going to pull you

(00:42:11):

aside and do an interview while you’re in town for the career fair.

(00:42:14):

And I were saying, hey, we still on for tomorrow?

(00:42:16):

And you go, yeah, yeah, yeah.

(00:42:17):

Hey, what are you doing tomorrow?

(00:42:18):

I’m like, well, I don’t know.

(00:42:19):

You’re like, take an interview.

(00:42:21):

And so you had a sign-up sheet.

(00:42:22):

And I couldn’t tell you no because I just asked you to do an interview for me.

(00:42:26):

And you’re like, well, take an interview for me.

(00:42:27):

I’m like, well, I can’t tell him no because he just said yes to me.

(00:42:29):

So I signed up.

(00:42:31):

And you had already put that idea in my head of coming to work for you,

(00:42:33):

which it’s not that I ignored it,

(00:42:35):

but it’s like,

(00:42:35):

yeah,

(00:42:36):

you know,

(00:42:36):

whatever.

(00:42:37):

And then it really was in that first interview where you started talking about the job.

(00:42:41):

That’s when you told me about negotiating with Donald Trump.

(00:42:43):

I remember that.

(00:42:45):

And then talking about the job, talking about what it was.

(00:42:48):

And just like you laid out the timeline for the hiring decisions.

(00:42:52):

Just like I could have a job and have it figured out by Thanksgiving.

(00:42:57):

And going into my final semester of college, just have that done with it.

(00:43:00):

You didn’t have to worry about it.

(00:43:01):

You didn’t have to worry about it.

(00:43:02):

And so I ended up going, getting the interview.

(00:43:04):

The interview event at that time, they flew us all into Milwaukee.

(00:43:07):

We had this reception at Miller Park is what it was called with the Brewers.

(00:43:10):

Yeah, getting a tour.

(00:43:11):

I was a Brewers fan.

(00:43:13):

Oh, you were?

(00:43:13):

Yeah, I still am, but I’m not a diehard.

(00:43:15):

But that was my height of my fandom.

(00:43:17):

So super impressive.

(00:43:18):

Just seeing John’s Controls everywhere at Miller Park and getting a tour of the

(00:43:21):

dugout and everything.

(00:43:22):

The back, you know, the clubhouse and just this amazing show.

(00:43:26):

This kid that’s living off of ramen noodles now being treated like a celebrity and took the job.

(00:43:32):

You offered the job, took the job.

(00:43:33):

And I didn’t get another job offer until...

(00:43:36):

There’s three different engineering firms I was really courting.

(00:43:39):

HDR?

(00:43:40):

HDR was not on my list because they just, they never showed an interest.

(00:43:43):

Really?

(00:43:44):

I applied several times for an internship and they always had,

(00:43:46):

they would take one intern a year kind of thing.

(00:43:50):

Today, that’s not the case.

(00:43:51):

I know, I know.

(00:43:52):

It’s crazy because they would take like one and I would get the interview but not

(00:43:56):

the job kind of thing.

(00:43:57):

And that happened to me all the time.

(00:43:59):

But I interned at DLR and

(00:44:01):

And I was told after the fact they had every intention to offer me a job,

(00:44:05):

but they didn’t have a job yet.

(00:44:07):

I tried very aggressively to court HGA.

(00:44:11):

They had an office in Milwaukee, an office in Lincoln, or not in Lincoln, in Minneapolis.

(00:44:15):

In their headquarter, Minneapolis.

(00:44:16):

Yeah, and I actually went to their office, my family in Minneapolis.

(00:44:21):

And so we were up for Thanksgiving to visit family.

(00:44:23):

And I reached out to HGA and said, hey, can you give me a tour while I’m here?

(00:44:25):

And they were on our board.

(00:44:27):

Yeah, and that’s how I got to know them.

(00:44:28):

So they gave me a tour.

(00:44:29):

They interviewed me.

(00:44:30):

They

(00:44:31):

Laid out the spread.

(00:44:32):

I was very impressed, but they just didn’t have a job.

(00:44:34):

And then Leo A.

(00:44:35):

Daly at the time,

(00:44:36):

Ryan Curtis,

(00:44:36):

who’s actually the chair of the board now,

(00:44:38):

him and I got to know each other really well.

(00:44:41):

And he sent me an email.

(00:44:42):

I think it was six months into my job at Johnson saying, hey,

(00:44:45):

By C.S.

(00:44:46):

Beaty

(00:45:11):

I had all the mentors that I needed,

(00:45:14):

even though I didn’t know anything about mechanical engineering or anything at the

(00:45:17):

time,

(00:45:17):

really in construction.

(00:45:18):

It’s like I had everything I needed.

(00:45:20):

I remember going to the first...

(00:45:22):

Husker game with Tommy Frazier in our Nebraska suite yeah and you were there

(00:45:28):

obviously but Tommy Frazier’s in there not even paying attention to the game

(00:45:31):

flirting with the hostess or whatever he was doing and being like it was a it was a

(00:45:35):

pinch me self moment I’m like here I am this diehard Husker fan with Tommy Frazier

(00:45:39):

the greatest quarterback of all time in a Nebraska uniform just hanging out and I’m

(00:45:43):

watching this game and I’m eight you know I was eight I’m 22 years old you know

(00:45:47):

doing this kind of stuff and it was just a surreal thing

(00:45:50):

Johnson made me the executive in charge of the African American Affinity Network.

(00:45:55):

I would meet quarterly with 50 to 100 African American Johnson employees to be a

(00:46:02):

resource to help them advance their career.

(00:46:04):

And so once a year at that time,

(00:46:07):

we would hold like a conference and bring all these African American employees in,

(00:46:11):

try and help them

(00:46:13):

advanced in the company so because I was in charge of that I brought Tommy Frazier

(00:46:17):

in to speak he just authored his book about his career and I mean he came from

(00:46:22):

pretty tough beginnings his brother was in prison group in Florida right Bradenton

(00:46:27):

Florida yeah and so uh brought him in to speak to the to the group and it was all

(00:46:32):

about you know don’t worry about where you came from focus on where you’re going

(00:46:36):

right

(00:46:36):

Actually,

(00:46:37):

do you ever heard that when Nebraska played Miami in the Orange Bowl in Tom

(00:46:42):

Osborne’s first national championship,

(00:46:44):

who was the big tackle for Miami?

(00:46:46):

Warren Sapp.

(00:46:47):

Warren Sapp, yeah.

(00:46:48):

Warren Sapp, yeah.

(00:46:49):

So at that time, Brooke Berenger and Frazier were sharing time as quarterback.

(00:46:56):

Yeah, the blood clot issues.

(00:46:57):

Yeah.

(00:46:57):

Or Tommy did, yeah.

(00:46:59):

So because Tommy hadn’t played much, Berenger started the game.

(00:47:03):

And then later, we weren’t doing so well, so later...

(00:47:06):

Osborne brought in Tommy Frazier and so when Tommy stepped up to take snap from

(00:47:12):

center for the first time in the game Warren Sapp said so where you been dude or

(00:47:17):

something to that effect and Tommy’s response he’s told me this personally he said

(00:47:22):

Tommy’s response was hey badass it’s not where I’ve been it’s where I’m going I’m

(00:47:27):

going to the end zone

(00:47:29):

And he scored, right?

(00:47:31):

Yeah, of course.

(00:47:32):

But it was those exact words that Tommy shared.

(00:47:35):

He goes, hey, fat ass, it’s not where I’ve been, it’s where I’m going.

(00:47:39):

Yeah.

(00:47:39):

And we’re going to the end zone.

(00:47:40):

Yeah.

(00:47:41):

And we ended up winning the game.

(00:47:42):

Oh, yeah.

(00:47:43):

So I had him speak at that African-American affinity that we did in Oklahoma City

(00:47:47):

and flew a bunch of people in.

(00:47:49):

And Tommy gave them all signed copies.

(00:47:51):

He personally signed copies for like 50 or 80.

(00:47:54):

Oh, that’s so cool.

(00:47:54):

Pretty cool.

(00:47:55):

So that’s how I got him in the suit.

(00:47:57):

You would fly in from Kansas City on a small private jet with your friend that

(00:48:02):

shared the suite with us every morning.

(00:48:04):

And they would have crockpots of little Smokies or whatever in the jet.

(00:48:08):

And you guys would cook them in Kansas City, fly up for the game.

(00:48:11):

And we’d hang out at the tailgate and then go up to the suite.

(00:48:15):

One of my favorite stories that I tell all the time was Adi Kanolic and Zach Lee

(00:48:20):

were at the tailgate.

(00:48:21):

Frequently.

(00:48:21):

Yeah,

(00:48:22):

but there’s one specific time,

(00:48:24):

so Zach Lee,

(00:48:24):

who was the Husker quarterback back in the early Bo days,

(00:48:28):

I think,

(00:48:28):

or during Bo Pelini days,

(00:48:30):

and Adi Kanolik was the,

(00:48:31):

he was the kickoff specialist,

(00:48:32):

the guy that always put it through the uprights,

(00:48:34):

you know.

(00:48:35):

Personality-wise,

(00:48:36):

my audio is kind of a,

(00:48:37):

he thought a lot of himself,

(00:48:38):

you know,

(00:48:39):

very confident,

(00:48:40):

very outspoken.

(00:48:40):

And Zach was a lot more laid back, very humble kind of thing, but Adi Kanolik wasn’t.

(00:48:45):

He was telling this story about

(00:48:47):

Oh yeah,

(00:48:47):

I’d always,

(00:48:48):

I’d go into the huddles,

(00:48:49):

but I’m putting this one through the uprights,

(00:48:51):

and you know,

(00:48:51):

I’m F this and F that.

(00:48:52):

These go through the uprights.

(00:48:53):

And then your friend,

(00:48:55):

Bob Eckhold,

(00:48:56):

he looked at him and he goes,

(00:48:57):

so what happened to the Big Ten Championship game?

(00:48:59):

Everybody always talks about how they put the one second back on the clock,

(00:49:03):

you know,

(00:49:03):

so Texas kicks it.

(00:49:04):

This kickoff went out of bounds.

(00:49:05):

That’s the reason why they’re in a field goal position to begin with,

(00:49:08):

because they always talk about how they put one second back on the clock,

(00:49:10):

because Indomitian Sioux is pass rush,

(00:49:12):

Colt McCoy gets it off,

(00:49:13):

it should have been zero,

(00:49:13):

Nebraska should have won.

(00:49:14):

By C.S.

(00:49:15):

Beaty

(00:49:33):

Bob,

(00:49:33):

who is the suite owner who just isn’t intimidated by anybody,

(00:49:36):

goes,

(00:49:37):

so what happened to that game?

(00:49:38):

And you just see Simon just go, oh, like just shrunk down to nothing.

(00:49:43):

It was so great.

(00:49:44):

Audie was very much a fan favorite, right?

(00:49:46):

Yeah, I know.

(00:49:47):

He was the first, that’s the first time I can remember students taking off their shoes.

(00:49:51):

Yeah, that started with him.

(00:49:52):

They’d take off their shoes and hold it up.

(00:49:53):

That was all because of Audie.

(00:49:54):

Yeah, Audie Canolic.

(00:49:55):

I loved him,

(00:49:56):

but yeah,

(00:49:56):

it was such a weird,

(00:49:58):

you know,

(00:49:58):

five years later,

(00:49:59):

I hear the story at the tailgate and stuff.

(00:50:01):

So my friend Bob Eckholt, did I ever tell you the Indomicon Sioux story?

(00:50:05):

Told me you interacted with him a little bit.

(00:50:07):

So my friend Bob Eckholt,

(00:50:09):

living in Kansas City,

(00:50:10):

and he said,

(00:50:10):

hey,

(00:50:11):

would you like to go see a summer workout,

(00:50:14):

Husker summer workout?

(00:50:15):

And this is just after Indomicon’s last season, so he’s working out to get into the NFL.

(00:50:21):

When he was about ready to be the number two overall pick,

(00:50:24):

but people thought he would have got number one,

(00:50:25):

yeah.

(00:50:26):

Yeah,

(00:50:26):

so he’s working out with the Nebraska team who’s working out to get ready for the

(00:50:30):

next season.

(00:50:31):

Bob and I go into Lincoln,

(00:50:33):

we watch the workout,

(00:50:35):

and that day we watched them run 40-40,

(00:50:39):

the team,

(00:50:39):

the entire Nebraska team,

(00:50:41):

all the way across the field,

(00:50:42):

like 100 guys,

(00:50:43):

running 40-40 yard wind sprints.

(00:50:47):

40, one after another.

(00:50:49):

And Indomicon won every...

(00:50:52):

He’s the biggest guy on the field.

(00:50:54):

One of the biggest.

(00:50:54):

And he won every heat.

(00:50:56):

Well, that’s the thing that I don’t think people understood.

(00:50:58):

So he was a soccer player before he was a football player,

(00:51:00):

which means he had this insane cardio.

(00:51:02):

Yes.

(00:51:03):

Playing soccer, you’re just running the whole time.

(00:51:04):

But he just got too big for soccer, so he switched to football.

(00:51:07):

Yep.

(00:51:08):

So anyway,

(00:51:08):

we watched all that,

(00:51:09):

and we watched him work out,

(00:51:10):

and then they went in the locker room.

(00:51:13):

Bob said, hey, let’s go in the locker room.

(00:51:15):

And so we go in there, and Bob was Damakon’s tax attorney.

(00:51:21):

Well, he was like the taxidermy for like Sergio Garcia and CBA to the stars.

(00:51:25):

So he said, let’s, I’ll introduce you to Indomicon.

(00:51:29):

So we go in there, you know, and this is before the NFL.

(00:51:31):

In the NFL, he had this really bad reputation.

(00:51:33):

He hit people and shouldn’t have.

(00:51:35):

But, so we go in the locker room and he’s toweling off.

(00:51:39):

He’s got,

(00:51:40):

I mean,

(00:51:40):

so when he’s running these wind sprints,

(00:51:42):

he’s got just gym shorts on and his socks and tennis shoes.

(00:51:45):

Just built like a brick house, you know.

(00:51:47):

And so we walk up and Bob says, hey, I want you to meet my friend Gunther.

(00:51:51):

And Domicon shakes my hand and Bob says, Gunther works for Johnson Controls.

(00:51:57):

And Domicon asks Bob, so what’s Johnson Controls?

(00:52:00):

He goes, well, they do a lot of HVAC type stuff.

(00:52:04):

And so it happened,

(00:52:05):

I didn’t know this at the time,

(00:52:06):

and Domicon’s dad was a mechanical contractor in Portland,

(00:52:10):

Oregon.

(00:52:10):

Well, he was, and he was an engineering, well, a construction engineering.

(00:52:13):

Yeah, he got

(00:52:14):

Yeah, graduated from the Durham School.

(00:52:15):

Yeah, construction management, I think.

(00:52:17):

Yeah, construction management.

(00:52:18):

Bob, my friend, explains in Dominicon, Gunther Company has a lot of HVAC business.

(00:52:23):

He’s a, in Dominicon says, oh, my dad’s a mechanical contractor in Portland, Oregon.

(00:52:27):

He said, do you, do you work in Oregon?

(00:52:29):

I go, in fact, Oregon, part of my responsibility for Johnson Controls.

(00:52:32):

And he said, wow.

(00:52:33):

He goes, do you have a business card?

(00:52:35):

I said, sure.

(00:52:36):

He said, my wallet gave him a business card.

(00:52:38):

And he said, would you mind if I give this to my dad to, uh,

(00:52:42):

Maybe you guys can connect and do some business.

(00:52:46):

Have at it, man.

(00:52:46):

So I gave him the card.

(00:52:47):

I think nothing’s going to happen with us, right?

(00:52:49):

A few days go by and I get a call and it’s his dad.

(00:52:52):

It’s Adomicon Su’s dad.

(00:52:54):

What was, do you know his name?

(00:52:55):

I can’t remember his name.

(00:52:56):

Because they all have these crazy first names because they’re from, you know, African descent.

(00:53:00):

Yeah, I honestly don’t remember his first name.

(00:53:02):

But he calls me and he says who he is, you know, whatever his first name was.

(00:53:06):

Sue.

(00:53:06):

And he says, hey, is this Gunther?

(00:53:09):

I go, yes.

(00:53:09):

He goes, my name is such and such, Sue.

(00:53:13):

I’m Adomicon’s father.

(00:53:16):

Don’t know if you... You met with Indomicon recently.

(00:53:19):

Don’t know if you remember him or know who he is.

(00:53:22):

Yeah, he leaves an impression.

(00:53:25):

I said, Mr. Sue, there’s nobody in the state of Nebraska that doesn’t know your son.

(00:53:31):

Right?

(00:53:32):

He’s very popular.

(00:53:33):

He goes, oh, I’m glad to hear that.

(00:53:35):

I mean, he was so...

(00:53:36):

Both Indomicon and his father were so humble.

(00:53:39):

I mean, literally he said to me, I don’t know if you remember him.

(00:53:43):

There was no bigger name.

(00:53:44):

He was just a finalist for the Heisman Trophy, you know.

(00:53:47):

Came in second.

(00:53:47):

Yeah, whatever.

(00:53:48):

Yeah.

(00:53:49):

And so I was like flabbergasted.

(00:53:51):

So long story short, I met him in Portland.

(00:53:53):

He did mostly residential, so we never did much with him.

(00:53:57):

But how cool was that?

(00:53:58):

And Indomicon,

(00:53:59):

when I talked to him for those 15 minutes in the locker room,

(00:54:02):

it was yes,

(00:54:03):

sir,

(00:54:03):

no,

(00:54:03):

so polite.

(00:54:04):

Then he goes to the NFL and he becomes the bad boy of the NFL.

(00:54:07):

And I heard those stories too,

(00:54:09):

but I mean,

(00:54:09):

you’re not the only person I ever talk to that’s interacted with him in person.

(00:54:12):

They always say the same thing.

(00:54:13):

It’s just very humble,

(00:54:14):

very soft-spoken,

(00:54:15):

you know,

(00:54:16):

but I think part of what made him so great was he was able to flip that switch on

(00:54:21):

the field and became this other person,

(00:54:23):

which I feel like to be that good,

(00:54:25):

you got to kind of play with that edge.

(00:54:26):

But I mean,

(00:54:26):

I know some people have thought he was a dirty player or whatever,

(00:54:29):

but I mean,

(00:54:30):

I’ve heard a lot of people have similar stories about how kind he was,

(00:54:33):

you know,

(00:54:33):

in person and whatnot.

(00:54:34):

Hey, I really enjoyed it.

(00:54:35):

I love you.

(00:54:36):

You know that.

(00:54:36):

I was thinking about this the other day.

(00:54:38):

With the exception of my wife,

(00:54:40):

I don’t know if there’s anybody that changed the trajectory of my life more than

(00:54:43):

you.

(00:54:43):

Like just going into- Steve Hitts.

(00:54:45):

Well, Steve, I know, but I’m saying like where it started, right?

(00:54:48):

Like just even thinking about what my life would have looked like if I hadn’t met

(00:54:50):

you,

(00:54:51):

going from even just being an engineer,

(00:54:53):

but the career I have,

(00:54:55):

the career path,

(00:54:55):

all those things.

(00:54:56):

I mean, you were such a big impact, especially from a professional career standpoint.

(00:54:59):

Yeah.

(00:55:00):

I think it was our career was interesting in that like five years in a lot of weird

(00:55:05):

stuff happened and the company completely changed.

(00:55:08):

Yeah,

(00:55:08):

you and I personally but even just like I think that it was heartbreaking because

(00:55:13):

There was a lot of stress in that period of time on both sides.

(00:55:16):

On both sides for you and I but also like

(00:55:19):

The company changed and you went on to different roles.

(00:55:22):

And so we never,

(00:55:22):

I think I learned as a young person and I have the perspective that I do now where

(00:55:26):

like these big jobs,

(00:55:27):

just stuff just goes wrong.

(00:55:29):

You get upset with people.

(00:55:30):

People get sideways.

(00:55:32):

And you just make it up later.

(00:55:34):

You patch things up.

(00:55:35):

It’s like family, right?

(00:55:36):

Yeah.

(00:55:36):

So you get crossways with family, but you still love them.

(00:55:38):

Yeah.

(00:55:39):

But you may not talk to them for a while because you’re upset.

(00:55:41):

And we didn’t get the opportunity, though, because you went on and did something else.

(00:55:45):

And I don’t think it wasn’t on your terms, which is heartbreaking to me.

(00:55:48):

And it took us a while to do it.

(00:55:50):

In my mind,

(00:55:52):

Dawson smoothed my head over and got me back on the right track that,

(00:55:56):

hey,

(00:55:56):

Chris is a good guy.

(00:55:57):

Yeah.

(00:55:57):

Well, I need to say, I remember texting with Dawson, so I go to work for him.

(00:56:01):

I remember having a comment like you know I just I need to make things right with

(00:56:05):

Gunther and then he goes you know what he said the exact same thing about me to you

(00:56:09):

not even a month ago he’s like I’ve never had this experience where both people

(00:56:13):

said the same thing where they didn’t make like so I finally remember one day I had

(00:56:16):

a real rough running with the guy that I was working for at the time and you know

(00:56:20):

it’s just it was it was a bad situation and I remember just calling you and saying

(00:56:23):

you know what Gunther I’ve seen what a bad boss looks like now I just saw I

(00:56:27):

witnessed it in my own career

(00:56:29):

That was never you.

(00:56:30):

Even when you and I weren’t on the best of terms, that was never you.

(00:56:33):

You always acted with character.

(00:56:34):

And I always knew you were on my side, even if we disagreed.

(00:56:36):

And I think that that conversation ever since then has been a little different.

(00:56:40):

That got patched over.

(00:56:41):

I mean, I don’t even think about it anymore.

(00:56:44):

But Steve was a big part of that.

(00:56:45):

Because I didn’t know how to patch it up with you.

(00:56:48):

And Steve was kind of the intermediary.

(00:56:51):

And I love him like a son.

(00:56:53):

I love him like a brother.

(00:56:55):

And he’s told me that I’m kind of the father he never had.

(00:56:58):

Well, that’s true.

(00:57:00):

That’s true.

(00:57:00):

Because him and his mom are so close.

(00:57:03):

He does everything for his mom.

(00:57:05):

He never knew his dad.

(00:57:06):

His dad died right after he was born or before or something.

(00:57:10):

What a great guy.

(00:57:12):

He’s a character, too.

(00:57:14):

Makes me laugh.

(00:57:15):

He’s so much fun.

(00:57:16):

That’s the thing.

(00:57:17):

You and him have the same quality where there’s different styles of leadership.

(00:57:21):

Some people are the smartest person in the room.

(00:57:23):

Some people are this or that.

(00:57:25):

But for you and him, I think it was always just like, I always felt I knew who you were.

(00:57:29):

First and foremost, there’s nothing fake about you.

(00:57:31):

If you said something you believed,

(00:57:32):

if you said the YK chiller with an open drive is the best chiller in the market,

(00:57:36):

I might not agree with it.

(00:57:37):

But if you say it, at least I know you believe it because you’re such a genuine person.

(00:57:42):

And in a sales role, I think that’s why both of you had such successful careers.

(00:57:46):

But I...

(00:57:47):

I just felt like I could be myself with you and me as this young kid and like I

(00:57:50):

could just hang out with these people not feel odd or awkward have to suck up or

(00:57:54):

kiss ass or be somebody else and you just put me at ease always and it’s just such

(00:57:57):

a fun even the hang out with you and him and the three of us it’s just some of my

(00:58:01):

favorite moments working with you.

(00:58:03):

I was so I mean you know I got pretty high up in Johnson Controls and it was only

(00:58:07):

it wasn’t me it was guys like you and Dawson and others that Sean Maher people

(00:58:14):

Tommy Anderson

(00:58:15):

I just had such a great team.

(00:58:17):

I used to get criticized at JCI because they would do this data analysis that

(00:58:25):

people on my team were paid more than the average Johnson Controls guy.

(00:58:30):

HR would come in and go, here’s some data I want to show your people are making X percent more.

(00:58:35):

I go, how’s our profitability compared to other regions?

(00:58:38):

They go, well, you’re generally number one or two.

(00:58:43):

I go, so what’s your point?

(00:58:44):

They go,

(00:58:45):

Well,

(00:58:46):

you know,

(00:58:46):

we just,

(00:58:47):

you know,

(00:58:47):

you’re giving out two big of raises because they give us a budget and I would spend

(00:58:50):

the whole budget.

(00:58:51):

I didn’t, whereas a lot of my colleagues that were vice presidents would hold back some money.

(00:58:57):

Like to, I don’t know why.

(00:58:58):

I mean, I never wanted people to leave for money, right?

(00:59:03):

If they left because of a better opportunity,

(00:59:05):

because Johnson wasn’t paying them,

(00:59:07):

that made sense to me.

(00:59:10):

Or because maybe their boss was an idiot or something.

(00:59:13):

But I always try to make sure

(00:59:16):

Everybody that worked for me was paid really well, and they were treated well.

(00:59:19):

I remember when I started working for Steve,

(00:59:22):

it was my first big promotion,

(00:59:24):

and so I was going for whatever my entry-level salary,

(00:59:26):

which was already,

(00:59:27):

in my opinion,

(00:59:28):

great.

(00:59:29):

I always told people my first paycheck working for Johnson Controls multiplied my

(00:59:34):

bank account,

(00:59:35):

I think it was 2.6.

(00:59:37):

There’s a little signing bonus in there in a couple grand, but

(00:59:40):

It was whatever I had in savings.

(00:59:41):

My entire net worth was multiplied by 2.6 in my first paycheck.

(00:59:47):

So I always felt I was treated well.

(00:59:49):

And then I go to work for Steve,

(00:59:52):

and it was a promotion,

(00:59:54):

but it was a little bit of a lateral move.

(00:59:56):

And I remember talking to him about the new offer, and I remember trying to talk him down.

(01:00:00):

I’m like, that seems like way too much, not what I’m worth.

(01:00:02):

And Steve made a comment like,

(01:00:05):

You got to take it but also you got to understand the reason why we’re doing this

(01:00:07):

because we want you to feel like you know we’re taking care of you and that’s

(01:00:11):

starts at Gunther you know includes me and everything take this you know and know

(01:00:16):

the reason why we’re doing this because we care about we believe in you we think

(01:00:19):

this is what you’re worth we don’t want to pay you less just because you’ll accept

(01:00:21):

less yeah exactly I mean the last thing I want to do is people feel like I need to

(01:00:26):

look elsewhere because I’m not being paid and that philosophy did well for me I had

(01:00:31):

less turnover than any other region because we treated our people

(01:00:35):

And even those that we couldn’t pay more because maybe they weren’t performing as

(01:00:37):

well,

(01:00:37):

we always treated them very civilly,

(01:00:39):

right?

(01:00:40):

And never made it personal, tried not to.

(01:00:42):

Well, I was, I remember being told this story.

(01:00:44):

I went to the office in, was it Bozeman, Montana?

(01:00:47):

One of the Montana offices, not even the big one, just one of the small ones.

(01:00:51):

And I was just there on a sales call and I made some comment about who I was, where I was from.

(01:00:55):

I think I said, I work out of Omaha.

(01:00:56):

I’m like, oh, you know Gunther?

(01:00:57):

I’m like, yeah.

(01:00:58):

She said, well, I got laid off.

(01:01:00):

I don’t know when, you know, it was a down, it was a layoff thing.

(01:01:02):

One of the,

(01:01:03):

one of the secretaries or I might’ve been a COA or somebody,

(01:01:05):

an admin type of person,

(01:01:07):

an older lady.

(01:01:09):

And they, and it was, you know, after a while they, and then they brought me back.

(01:01:13):

The first person to call me was Gunther thanking me or making sure that I was treated well.

(01:01:17):

I was just like,

(01:01:18):

you know,

(01:01:18):

that was to have the regional vice president at that time,

(01:01:21):

you know,

(01:01:21):

you’re what two seats below the CEO.

(01:01:23):

Yeah.

(01:01:24):

You know,

(01:01:25):

the first phone call she got when she got rehired as a,

(01:01:27):

whatever it was,

(01:01:28):

a secretary or whatever.

(01:01:29):

I actually remember that.

(01:01:30):

In a small Montana office.

(01:01:32):

And she’d been there for like ever.

(01:01:33):

Yeah.

(01:01:34):

She’s the mother of the branch.

(01:01:35):

And we decided to let her go.

(01:01:37):

And I was able to get that reversed somehow.

(01:01:39):

I remember how I did that.

(01:01:41):

First thing she said when I said it was from Omaha.

(01:01:42):

And she’s like, oh, you know.

(01:01:44):

Everywhere I went, I’d hear a Gunther story like that.

(01:01:46):

You know, everywhere.

(01:01:47):

I was there for 40 years.

(01:01:49):

Oh, yeah, but still.

(01:01:50):

I knew a lot of people that had been there for a long time that didn’t have good stories.

(01:01:53):

Yeah.

(01:01:55):

Johnson was really good to me and I’ve said this multiple times in my life that it

(01:02:00):

was like family to me and I didn’t ever want to leave there but the politics of

(01:02:04):

after we acquired Tyco was so bad that it just became my Judy my wife of 50 some

(01:02:09):

years now so I was at Johnson 46 years but married to my wife at that time like 48

(01:02:15):

years or something and Judy would always remind me dude I knew you before you knew

(01:02:19):

Johnson Controls because I got married when I was in college joined Johnson and uh

(01:02:25):

And I thought I’d work there,

(01:02:26):

the last job I ever had,

(01:02:27):

but the politics got so bad that I’d come home and not be happy and say,

(01:02:32):

you need to do something because it’s affecting your health.

(01:02:35):

She thought she was afraid of that.

(01:02:36):

Yeah, well, and you had survived cancer not long ago.

(01:02:39):

So Judy, it was interesting.

(01:02:40):

She said, we need to talk.

(01:02:43):

We’ve been married a long time, and I’m thinking, oh, this sounds good.

(01:02:47):

It’s never a good way to start.

(01:02:48):

Yeah, so I said, what’s up?

(01:02:49):

She goes, you know, you come home, you’re not happy anymore.

(01:02:53):

And she said,

(01:02:55):

You got like three choices here.

(01:02:57):

She said you can suck it up buttercup and shut up and just it is what it is and

(01:03:03):

maybe you outlast whatever the problems are or you can find something else to do

(01:03:09):

that maybe you’ll be happy again.

(01:03:11):

Or you can retire.

(01:03:12):

Because he said, you don’t have to be working.

(01:03:14):

You don’t need to work anymore.

(01:03:15):

We have a financial advisor.

(01:03:17):

He told us that a couple years prior to that.

(01:03:20):

But I did it because I enjoyed it.

(01:03:22):

And I liked the people I was working with, right?

(01:03:24):

So I ended up taking a job with AVI Systems after that.

(01:03:29):

Did that for three years.

(01:03:30):

And then COVID hit.

(01:03:31):

And I just had enough after that.

(01:03:35):

They were so good.

(01:03:36):

My brother was there for 30 some years.

(01:03:39):

Tommy Anderson was there for...

(01:03:40):

I mean, a lot of the people I hired were there for... Well, and your brother, that was always...

(01:03:44):

He was a tech technician.

(01:03:45):

People didn’t believe we were brothers, right?

(01:03:47):

Well,

(01:03:47):

because you were the guy in the sports coat running the show,

(01:03:51):

and then Werner,

(01:03:52):

your brother,

(01:03:53):

was the guy in the scruffy beard and the earring wearing literally the blue-collar

(01:03:57):

Johnson Controls tech shirts.

(01:04:01):

Once you figured it out, you could see the family resemblance, but I mean, just...

(01:04:05):

But you’re both seems perfectly happy and at like where you wanted to be,

(01:04:09):

you know,

(01:04:09):

like personality wise.

(01:04:11):

So there would be like LSS positions.

(01:04:13):

So he was a tech, right?

(01:04:14):

Like a senior tech.

(01:04:16):

It elevated to that point.

(01:04:17):

But there were positions that opened up that where he could get promoted.

(01:04:20):

And I would know about him before he did.

(01:04:22):

Right.

(01:04:22):

And so I’d call him and say, hey, there’s an LSS position open up in Omar Lincoln.

(01:04:26):

You should apply for it.

(01:04:27):

He’d say, brother.

(01:04:29):

I don’t want to manage people.

(01:04:31):

I work eight to whatever and I get on call sometimes,

(01:04:34):

but I’m home with my family and I don’t have all these headaches about having to

(01:04:38):

manage people like you do.

(01:04:40):

And actually,

(01:04:42):

I told him this,

(01:04:43):

he was a better father than I ever was because he was home with his kids all the

(01:04:47):

time and he was doing things with them that I was either traveling or busy or

(01:04:51):

working late or something.

(01:04:53):

Not that I was a bad father, but he was a better father.

(01:04:57):

He just never wanted to do that.

(01:04:59):

I could have helped him big time.

(01:05:01):

I just never wanted to do it.

(01:05:02):

People would go, I met your brother.

(01:05:05):

I didn’t believe it was your brother at first.

(01:05:07):

I said, yeah.

(01:05:09):

My mom used to say this.

(01:05:10):

My mom used to say that I was her pride and my brother was her joy.

(01:05:16):

My brother was a character.

(01:05:18):

Telling jokes.

(01:05:20):

I was her pride and my brother was her joy.

(01:05:22):

So that’s just the way it is.

(01:05:24):

It’s not bad to have both of those.

(01:05:27):

So I told Judy this.

(01:05:32):

Someday I’m going to read about you winning an Academy Award.

(01:05:36):

I’m dead serious.

(01:05:37):

You’ve got so much freaking potential.

(01:05:39):

You’re so freaking talented.

(01:05:41):

Between being an author,

(01:05:42):

podcaster,

(01:05:44):

sales engineer,

(01:05:45):

father,

(01:05:46):

all these things,

(01:05:47):

you’re freaking amazing.

(01:05:49):

I’m just restless more than anything, but thank you.

(01:05:51):

No, but seriously, I’m blown away.

(01:05:53):

Just totally blown away.

(01:05:55):

That means a lot coming from you.

(01:05:56):

I appreciate that.

(01:05:57):

I know that, I don’t know.

(01:05:59):

I try to do everything.

(01:06:00):

You have an intellect and a personality that not many people have.

(01:06:04):

Thank you.

(01:06:04):

I’m dead serious.

(01:06:05):

I know you are.

(01:06:07):

I thought you were a long shot.

(01:06:09):

Probably has no interest in Jordan Johnson Controls, but somehow we pulled that out.

(01:06:14):

Yeah, well, you asked, and that’s all it took.

(01:06:18):

All right, man.

(01:06:19):

I’m going to get out of here.

(01:06:20):

Interesting People is produced by Chris Beaty in his basement.

(01:06:24):

Thank you to Gunther DeVanis for being such a big part of my life and for spending

(01:06:28):

some time chatting.

(01:06:29):

If you want to read that article Gunther and I co-authored,

(01:06:32):

it’s on my website csbeaty.com under the tab titled Boring Nerd Stuff.

(01:06:38):

Signing off from the greatest city and the greatest state on earth, Omaha, Nebraska.

The easiest way I found to describe what the book turned into was the story of all the girls I had crushes on in high school. And there were a lot of them. All of them knew some of my feelings for them, but no one knew all of them. So that was what I wrote about—those painfully awkward and embarrassing emotions that live within any self-conscious adolescent trying to figure out who they are and what they feel. The book became a confessional of sorts, and I was really proud of how it turned out.

But I figured I probably needed to give a heads-up to some people before it came out.

I was now married with three kids and most of these old flames were now married or at least in some serious relationship of their own—and with a far more suitable match than I likely would have made. But regardless, I noticed how easy it was to feel some of those feelings again. There was almost an arbitrary nature to it. Each one of these women had a quality that had attracted me to them in the first place, and it wasn’t hard to remember what it was. It was slightly different with each girl, but when I listened to one of them get interviewed by Ari Shapiro on NPR’s Fresh Air about this amazing nonprofit for refugee education she worked for, all it took was the sound of her voice. I could see her. Not just be reminded of her, I was there with her. I don’t know if I could have conjured up a memory of what her voice sounded like before that moment, but once I heard it, I was back in my high school bedroom. Talking to her on the phone. Pleading with God not to let her dad find out that she was still awake. We were never meant to be together, I knew that even back then, but the emotion I felt for her—whatever it was—was real. And it was still there. Whatever it was.

So I sent her a message on Facebook Messenger. The only form of communication I still had to reach her.

Then I sent an email to the girl I invited on a ski trip.

And I sent a LinkedIn message to the girl who worked with me at a frozen yogurt shop.

And I sought out the husband of the girl I asked out on MSN messenger and got their home mailing address.

And I sent another Facebook message to my homecoming date. The one I took to McDonald’s.

All the messages started out with the same first sentence: “so I wrote a book about high school and you’re in it. Sort of a lot.”

From there I wrote something a bit more personal but ended each note asking for their address so I could mail them a copy of the book before it was released. I heard back from one of them within an hour. Again, I was transported. I had once asked this girl out via e-mail, it had taken her several days to get back to me that time, but on this occasion, I could tell she replied as soon as she saw the message. And it was really, really great to hear from her.

It took a little longer, but I heard from all but one. I tried that girl several more times, enough to where I’m pretty sure she saw the message at some point, but maybe not. I did have a dream about her the other night. In it she told me she thought the book was funny.

But I got a hold of everyone else and mailed them a copy of the book. And a letter. I told them some things I had never admitted to. And I warned them that in the book they now had, there would be many more things I had never said before.

And then I moved on. The book came out. People seemed to like it. A man I admire told me I “did a really brave thing.” I had former classmates ask me who the pseudonyms for each character were, but a lot of them could figure it out without my help. As much as I left unsaid during those years, I wasn’t really fooling anyone.

And then I heard back from a few of those letters.

One girl wrote me a letter back. Like an actual letter. She was pretty upset, but I understood why. I wrote her back. I told her sorry, but also clarified it was going to be one of those unsatisfying apologies where I say I’m sorry for how it made her feel but not for what I did. Because I stand by what I did. I was glad I said what I said.

Another girl sent me an e-mail. She told me she was surprised by what she read. She said that when I told her she was in it “sort of a lot” she was taken off guard by how much that “sort of a lot” was. She knew we had some sort of thing going on during high school, but admittedly it meant a lot less to her than apparently it did to me. At least not in a romantic sense. She thought we were just really close friends, and she felt a little sad to lose that version of me who meant so much to her. She really liked the version of me that she remembered, a version who didn’t obsess over her for years and clinged to her every word, desperately wanting to find their personal worth solely in her opinion of me. That wasn’t the person she thought she was friends with. And she really, really liked the person she was friends with. And I understood. I told her I understood. And I did.

Another girl loved the book, including the parts she was in. And she appreciated even when she was “called out” by me. And we started chatting a bit on Instagram afterward. Including on the day of her wedding, while she was getting her hair done. I got a chance to tell her how happy I was for her. How highly I thought of her. And how I hope she finds nothing but more happiness. I didn’t think it was a coincidence that we spoke on the day of her wedding. It felt fitting. I thought I might have married her at one point, but I married someone else. And so did she. And now we’re both happy. And both happy for each other.

But there were a few people who didn’t say anything. Nothing good, nothing bad—but I didn’t ask anyone to say anything. I wanted to say something, but it wasn’t mandatory that they responded. A lot of them probably felt weird about the whole thing and didn’t know what to say. Sometimes nothing needs to be said.

…

On the morning of my book release party, I was nothing but anxiety.

It would be a lie to say I was overwhelmed by the turnout. Frankly, I thought there would be more people. I thought I would sell more books. But I was overwhelmed by the individuals who came. By my first boss who drove over three hours from Kansas City just to see me and buy a book with more curse words in the introduction than he had said in in his entire adult life. By my 6th grade drama teacher who re-gifted a Barbie that I had painted to look like a cyborg—and given to her as a going away present when I last saw her over twenty years ago. By the friends, family, work colleagues, and former bandmates who didn’t need any pleading or coaxing to show up. Who just came because they wanted to be there. Because they were excited about this book that I wrote. Because they were in my corner.

I was thick in discussions with my old boss, I hadn’t caught up with him since he retired and I was eager for an update. But I had to ask him to give me a second. Someone had just walked in who I hadn’t seen for years. A beautiful young girl, with her husband and her two kids in tow. She looked a little unsure if she was in the right place, but one thing was clear. She wasn’t there to have me buy her a hamburger. But she was there to see her very first homecoming date.

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Today’s guest is my very first work friend,

(00:00:38):

who went on to quit that job,

(00:00:40):

join a cool Silicon Valley startup,

(00:00:42):

and move in with homeless people.

(00:00:45):

Kylie Sheehy.

(00:00:47):

I can’t hear you.

(00:00:48):

This is off to an awesome start.

(00:00:51):

Here, is it?

(00:00:51):

Did I fix it?

(00:00:52):

Yeah, there you go.

(00:00:53):

There we go.

(00:00:54):

Okay.

(00:00:55):

I got a lot of microphones.

(00:00:56):

I’m just like very savvy and technologically advanced.

(00:01:00):

Well I can tell because you got like some weird headset and what’s your fake

(00:01:04):

background fading in and out of?

(00:01:07):

This is actually a screenshot I took of a team’s background that I like better but

(00:01:16):

then when it’s too small for Zoom so it’s so vixly it looks absolutely fake but

(00:01:23):

that’s what we got.

(00:01:25):

So you’re like pretending to be in some random apartment?

(00:01:29):

It could be my apartment.

(00:01:31):

Yeah,

(00:01:31):

but we know it’s not because it’s like every time you move it goes like the

(00:01:34):

background is this.

(00:01:36):

Maybe I live in the future.

(00:01:39):

Where nothing works.

(00:01:41):

Technology is even worse.

(00:01:43):

It’s all been broken and it’s going to kill us.

(00:01:46):

Yeah, that sounds like the present day and the future.

(00:01:50):

See?

(00:01:52):

Get on my level.

(00:01:54):

I think we’re recording.

(00:01:55):

I don’t even know.

(00:01:56):

This is the first time I’ve ever done anything on Zoom,

(00:01:57):

and I’ve discovered that the lighting in my office is awful for this.

(00:02:01):

So I think this is going to be an audio podcast.

(00:02:04):

I don’t know what I prefer.

(00:02:06):

Well, good, because your background is making it definitely audio podcast worthy.

(00:02:14):

It’s like you’re doing a snow angel in your background, everything you move your arms.

(00:02:20):

Kylie Sheehy, what makes you interesting?

(00:02:22):

All kinds of things.

(00:02:26):

All right so you were born where are you even from yeah great question that’s the

(00:02:35):

first thing that makes me interesting I think uh so it’s really just one of my

(00:02:39):

superpowers uh that I can be from any hometown at any moment in time I was born in

(00:02:46):

Kansas City Kansas and then uh not even the good Kansas City the bad one

(00:02:52):

The good one.

(00:02:53):

They’re all fine.

(00:02:53):

They’re all top notch and they’re all tied for first and then moved to North

(00:03:00):

Carolina and then moved to Georgia and then Texas and then Kansas for a short stint

(00:03:08):

and then Washington State and then D.C.

(00:03:13):

then like Northern Virginia area and then Michigan and then back to Kansas for

(00:03:19):

school and then

(00:03:20):

Cincinnati for a couple of years and then uh San Francisco and then Austin Wow I

(00:03:28):

didn’t I thought it was like three places it’s even worse than I thought no it’s

(00:03:32):

better than you thought yeah did you say Detroit don’t you live in Detroit too um

(00:03:38):

my parents live in Detroit Michigan is Detroit is in Michigan so when I said

(00:03:42):

Michigan that’s what I meant yeah

(00:03:44):

Okay, I wasn’t, this is already a really boring podcast.

(00:03:47):

I wasn’t even really listening to all that.

(00:03:49):

No, that’s interesting.

(00:03:50):

So anytime I get into an Uber, someone’s like, oh, I’m from like, whatever.

(00:03:53):

I just moved here.

(00:03:54):

I’m like, oh my God, me too.

(00:03:55):

And then we’re best friends.

(00:03:57):

What, yeah.

(00:03:58):

What makes you want to be from the Midwest so bad?

(00:03:59):

I feel like maybe it’s just you saying that to be like,

(00:04:04):

trying to like find some common ground with me.

(00:04:05):

But I feel like you always want to claim the Midwest,

(00:04:07):

even though it’s like the fourth most frequent place that you’ve lived at.

(00:04:13):

I would say I really lean into being one of the supervillains who moved from the

(00:04:17):

Bay Area to Austin.

(00:04:18):

That’s one of my favorite things.

(00:04:19):

That’s like what I like to claim as my my my home, just like as like a concept.

(00:04:28):

And then I actively tried to remove the Midwest from my my pedigree.

(00:04:32):

Yeah.

(00:04:34):

Oh,

(00:04:34):

so you’re not Midwest now because you were all about it when we first became

(00:04:37):

friends,

(00:04:37):

but you moved on.

(00:04:38):

It’s tough.

(00:04:39):

It’s tough because it like comes out of me because it’s just who I am and who my family is.

(00:04:43):

But yeah, like on paper, I prefer to be much more glamorously from elsewhere.

(00:04:52):

Okay, nevermind.

(00:04:53):

I’ve already like, you’re already a different person than I thought you were.

(00:04:55):

So your dad, your dad was, all right, it was, was it an army ranger?

(00:05:00):

What was your dad?

(00:05:01):

Okay, because I think everyone could probably figure this out.

(00:05:03):

Whenever you’re from a thousand places, you’re either like homeless or in the army, military.

(00:05:09):

So I’m guessing it’s the latter of the two.

(00:05:11):

Yeah.

(00:05:13):

Which, what is former and latter?

(00:05:15):

I don’t remember.

(00:05:15):

But like,

(00:05:16):

interestingly,

(00:05:16):

another thing that makes me interesting is that I do live among the homeless,

(00:05:19):

formerly homeless.

(00:05:21):

So like, we’re kindred spirits in a sense.

(00:05:24):

Okay, we’ll get to that part.

(00:05:25):

I got like, I got like notes, okay?

(00:05:26):

I made notes here.

(00:05:28):

So what was your dad’s job that made you like never at home anywhere you were ever at?

(00:05:34):

He was in the army.

(00:05:35):

He was doing army stuff.

(00:05:36):

We actually like had a very long conversation the last time I was home because I

(00:05:39):

was like,

(00:05:40):

you never told us what your job was.

(00:05:43):

And he was like, well, I wasn’t allowed to.

(00:05:45):

And I was like, okay.

(00:05:47):

He was a ranger, right?

(00:05:48):

Because I remember like he used to put around an army ranger water bottle.

(00:05:51):

Yeah, my sick water bottle.

(00:05:53):

No, Wayne Garrett got mad one day because he was like, what are you doing?

(00:05:57):

And I was like, my dad is a ranger.

(00:05:59):

And he was like, oh, sorry.

(00:06:01):

Yeah, so we were at a work.

(00:06:05):

Yeah,

(00:06:05):

for all my three people that are going to listen to this that weren’t in the room

(00:06:08):

at the time that happened.

(00:06:09):

So we were at a work training where Kyle and I became friends.

(00:06:12):

And you had an Army Ranger water bottle.

(00:06:14):

And we had this former, what do you know, West Point grad.

(00:06:18):

He was a West Pointer, but I don’t know what he did beyond that.

(00:06:21):

I don’t think I don’t think he did anything beyond that.

(00:06:25):

Because he went to West Point,

(00:06:26):

but then he pretty much jumped ship to 100% tailored suits and corporate American

(00:06:33):

private jet life.

(00:06:34):

To be the director of sales for any product line that they thought that he should

(00:06:39):

be in charge of,

(00:06:40):

even though he may or may not have known what that product line was.

(00:06:43):

He was one of those.

(00:06:44):

Yeah, and he saw your water bottle.

(00:06:46):

He was ready to just jump down your ass about having this illegal water bottle that

(00:06:50):

you don’t deserve to have.

(00:06:52):

And then you pulled rank on him.

(00:06:54):

Yeah no big time I did.

(00:06:56):

So what makes a ranger cool?

(00:06:58):

I feel like something about what he said was like you didn’t earn that or something

(00:07:02):

and I was like okay and then yeah and then dunked on him.

(00:07:07):

I got it from my dad who’s way cooler than you.

(00:07:11):

I never had a home my entire adolescence because my dad was busy serving the

(00:07:15):

country and defending your rights wing from the jungle and doing rangery stuff.

(00:07:22):

So what does an armor range even do?

(00:07:23):

Like, I know, like, the Green Berets and the Navy Seals.

(00:07:25):

I thought this interview was about me.

(00:07:27):

This is not my job.

(00:07:28):

Yeah, but this is the interesting stuff.

(00:07:31):

The interesting stuff is,

(00:07:32):

like,

(00:07:32):

why is your dad,

(00:07:32):

because,

(00:07:33):

all right,

(00:07:33):

so,

(00:07:33):

like,

(00:07:33):

I got,

(00:07:34):

like,

(00:07:34):

eight things about Colonel Sheehy,

(00:07:35):

because I remember you said that it’s all you’d ever talk about when I first got to

(00:07:38):

know you.

(00:07:39):

You said that he pitched the first pitch at a Detroit Tigers baseball game, and I went, what?

(00:07:43):

And you went, well, yeah, Colonel Sheehy has done a bunch of badass shit.

(00:07:48):

So that’s all I know about

(00:07:50):

I feel like your origin story is very much in tune with having a dad that was cool

(00:07:55):

enough to get an Army Rangers water bottle and do the opening pitch in a Tigers

(00:07:59):

game.

(00:08:00):

Well,

(00:08:00):

my origin story,

(00:08:01):

another thing that makes me interesting,

(00:08:03):

my origin story,

(00:08:05):

I don’t know if this is in your notes or if I’m skipping around too much.

(00:08:08):

Oh, yeah.

(00:08:08):

Well, this is a very tight ship.

(00:08:11):

So if you skip around, I’ll bring you back in.

(00:08:14):

My origin story, my dad was in the Persian Gulf when my mom was pregnant.

(00:08:19):

My mom had a very hard pregnancy, like almost died.

(00:08:21):

And my dad,

(00:08:24):

depending on your perspective,

(00:08:26):

leaving anyway was either very heroic or very negligent.

(00:08:29):

But it was at the time, it was very patriotic and heroic.

(00:08:31):

And we were like this very solid military family.

(00:08:34):

And my mom was like, go ahead, I’ll be okay.

(00:08:36):

And the other officer’s wives like kind of surrounded her and helped her out.

(00:08:40):

And but she just had a very hard pregnancy.

(00:08:42):

So she ended up moving back to Kansas where she’s from.

(00:08:46):

And when I was born,

(00:08:48):

there was like a big to do in the Kansas City Star about whether my dad was going

(00:08:53):

to make it or whether I was going to be born like before he got back.

(00:08:56):

And it was like a cover story.

(00:08:58):

I was like a little famous fetus.

(00:09:00):

And then I was a famous new baby and toddler because they kept like checking in on us.

(00:09:04):

And so then when I was I didn’t know it was supposed to be deployed for like

(00:09:08):

exactly nine months.

(00:09:09):

Like what was the I don’t know.

(00:09:12):

I don’t know.

(00:09:12):

It’s like how I wasn’t there yet.

(00:09:14):

Okay.

(00:09:16):

So he was gonna make it back.

(00:09:19):

And then, yeah, he was gonna make it back.

(00:09:22):

It was a big cover story.

(00:09:23):

And so then by the time he was like the news,

(00:09:25):

I got out that this like veteran was coming home,

(00:09:27):

like there’s all these like news stations and stuff like at my Nani and Papa’s

(00:09:31):

house.

(00:09:32):

And then my mom was on the TV all the time.

(00:09:33):

And she hates it because she was just like,

(00:09:36):

She’s very short.

(00:09:36):

So she was like huge and pregnant.

(00:09:38):

She was like, I hate these cameras in my face.

(00:09:41):

But then I was born March 15th.

(00:09:43):

And then my very first like homecoming was a huge St.

(00:09:47):

Patrick’s Day party on March 17th for St.

(00:09:49):

Patrick’s Day.

(00:09:49):

So like my origin story is full of a lot of really compelling lore.

(00:09:54):

So it’s like the at the zoo and it’s like baby watch for the baby gorilla.

(00:09:57):

And I was super excited about it.

(00:09:59):

But you were the baby gorilla.

(00:10:00):

I was a baby human child.

(00:10:01):

Yes.

(00:10:02):

Okay,

(00:10:02):

did they do the thing where they ask all the giant donors to submit weird African

(00:10:06):

names to name the baby gorilla?

(00:10:08):

Yeah, I went into something that’s much more interesting.

(00:10:11):

Something people can spell correctly.

(00:10:13):

Yeah, I don’t know if Kylie was like, I don’t know, some weird desert in Swahili or something.

(00:10:18):

I’d probably have like a way fatter trust fund if we had just done that.

(00:10:21):

So, okay, so you did that.

(00:10:23):

You were born.

(00:10:25):

Then what happened after you were born?

(00:10:27):

After I was born?

(00:10:28):

That brings us up to you being alive.

(00:10:29):

Yeah, cut to today.

(00:10:35):

Why did you pick Kansas?

(00:10:37):

Was it just the local, the KU thing?

(00:10:39):

Like just because you had family ties there?

(00:10:42):

Or was there something about you that really wanted to be a Kansas Jayhawk?

(00:10:45):

I loved Kansas.

(00:10:46):

I don’t know.

(00:10:46):

It was like one of those things,

(00:10:47):

like when you’re a senior in high school and you’re like,

(00:10:49):

I’m touring campuses,

(00:10:49):

like KU was just where I needed to be.

(00:10:51):

It was awesome.

(00:10:53):

It’s just a beautiful campus.

(00:10:54):

Were you living in Kansas then?

(00:10:56):

No, I was living in Michigan.

(00:10:58):

Okay.

(00:10:59):

Yeah.

(00:10:59):

My dad did Jayhawk and my mom went to K-State.

(00:11:02):

Was it in-state tuition?

(00:11:03):

No, that doesn’t matter.

(00:11:03):

Was it in-state tuition?

(00:11:05):

It was.

(00:11:05):

Again, because my dad was a veteran, so I got in-state at Kansas.

(00:11:11):

Okay.

(00:11:13):

I’ve had three guests, and you’re the second of the three that had that exact same setup.

(00:11:18):

Was it because you had a parent that was military,

(00:11:20):

so you had to do in-state tuition because that was where you were?

(00:11:23):

Well, it wasn’t where I was.

(00:11:24):

Where your parents were from, though, right?

(00:11:26):

Because you had to do it anywhere.

(00:11:28):

I think we could have done it anywhere at the time,

(00:11:30):

like whatever the Obama administration had set up for kids of veterans.

(00:11:33):

It was like any, I think, state school.

(00:11:36):

Okay.

(00:11:37):

You had a way better deal than my first guest, though.

(00:11:39):

Either that or he was way worse at understanding how that program works.

(00:11:43):

That’s, I think, much more possible.

(00:11:45):

Yeah.

(00:11:45):

He’s like, I could only live in Omaha or Hawaii, and I picked Omaha.

(00:11:49):

Yeah, he doesn’t know what’s going on.

(00:11:54):

Do you think he thought Oahu and Omaha were the same place?

(00:11:57):

You might have.

(00:11:58):

I mean, you could listen to the podcast yourself, but you’re never going to.

(00:12:01):

Yeah, you’re definitely not.

(00:12:03):

Okay,

(00:12:04):

so the only,

(00:12:05):

what I know about your time in Kansas,

(00:12:06):

because that’s also all you ever talked about when I was friends with you.

(00:12:10):

Yeah, well, Jay was like peak living.

(00:12:14):

I was, yeah.

(00:12:14):

I mean, I am.

(00:12:15):

It’s for life.

(00:12:17):

Is it really?

(00:12:18):

Yeah, yeah.

(00:12:19):

You’re always, now you’re always a sorority girl.

(00:12:21):

That’s how this works?

(00:12:22):

Yeah, of course.

(00:12:23):

Okay.

(00:12:25):

So.

(00:12:25):

Yeah.

(00:12:27):

Okay so sorority and you’re like you took nuns out to bars to share the gospel.

(00:12:32):

Yeah yeah I did that.

(00:12:33):

Part of your Catholic group.

(00:12:35):

Yes.

(00:12:36):

How’d you talk them into doing that?

(00:12:38):

I mean I still do that.

(00:12:39):

That’s like I’m like trying to go get beers with my friend Father Steve who was

(00:12:44):

just on Jeopardy actually.

(00:12:45):

He yeah I’m gonna go try and get beers with him and my friend Allison in a couple

(00:12:50):

weeks to talk lonesome dub and just

(00:12:52):

Have him out in the public or like I have I am in my tiny house where I live among

(00:12:56):

the homeless formerly homeless of Austin I like brought a bunch of priests over to

(00:13:00):

um to bless my tiny house and they like did confessions for some of my neighbors

(00:13:05):

and they just like talk to them yeah for sure oh yeah that’s like that’s just my

(00:13:09):

norm I’m just like always surrounded by holy holy dudes who can take care of stuff

(00:13:15):

yeah I do I try my hardest or like I had a Christmas party not that long ago and it

(00:13:20):

had shut down

(00:13:22):

And it was, again, at the village.

(00:13:24):

There’s, like, shuttles leaving the Christmas party.

(00:13:27):

And everyone had left.

(00:13:27):

Like, we’re, like, shutting it down.

(00:13:29):

Me and my friend are walking back to my house after we’d walked a bunch of people

(00:13:31):

to the shuttle.

(00:13:31):

And she’s going to help me tear down.

(00:13:33):

And out of the corner of my eye,

(00:13:34):

I see,

(00:13:34):

like,

(00:13:35):

four dudes in collars just,

(00:13:36):

like,

(00:13:37):

sneaking up my patio.

(00:13:38):

And I was like, what the heck?

(00:13:38):

And it was four priests who were like,

(00:13:40):

hey,

(00:13:40):

yeah,

(00:13:40):

we had a bunch of other Christmas parties to get to today.

(00:13:42):

But we wanted to make sure we got here.

(00:13:44):

And so they just shut it down.

(00:13:46):

They just came up.

(00:13:49):

So yeah,

(00:13:49):

you just got to have holy people in your life who show up and want to make sure you

(00:13:53):

make it to heaven.

(00:13:54):

What kind of party is a party with four presets?

(00:14:01):

I mean, they were down.

(00:14:03):

They’re always down.

(00:14:04):

They want to be among the people.

(00:14:05):

They want to know what we’re up to so they can pull us back up and out of it.

(00:14:10):

It’s like them reorienting their mission.

(00:14:12):

Be like, no, there is a place for me.

(00:14:14):

I do have lost sheep to save.

(00:14:17):

Yes, big time.

(00:14:18):

They’re like, well, they’ve wandered way further than we could have even thought.

(00:14:25):

You’ve always been fascinated me for so many reasons.

(00:14:27):

One is you’re my token Catholic friend who I always ask Catholic questions to.

(00:14:31):

And I never really know if I’m getting like,

(00:14:33):

you’re like the,

(00:14:34):

you’re like my version of the Pope.

(00:14:36):

Like my representation of all of Roman Catholicism goes through your interpretation of it.

(00:14:40):

You know, that’s like a dangerous thing.

(00:14:41):

You’re not really supposed to do that.

(00:14:42):

Yeah, it probably is.

(00:14:43):

But I also, I mean, so is the other institution, but you know.

(00:14:47):

No, no.

(00:14:47):

I mean, like anytime you’re like this one person represents the whole deal.

(00:14:51):

It’s like, it’s just like not, it’s not very sound.

(00:14:55):

No?

(00:14:55):

Well, even when it’s you?

(00:14:59):

I’m probably the exception.

(00:15:00):

So in my experience,

(00:15:01):

then,

(00:15:02):

all Catholics are just like you who take a bunch of priests to Christmas parties

(00:15:07):

and priests that have been on Jeopardy.

(00:15:09):

So apparently that’s more common than I think.

(00:15:12):

No, I don’t think so.

(00:15:12):

I think, again, I think I’m exceptional.

(00:15:14):

I’m very interesting.

(00:15:15):

That’s why I’m on this podcast.

(00:15:19):

Do you feel this is going well so far?

(00:15:20):

No, not at all.

(00:15:22):

No, yeah, not at all.

(00:15:25):

What were your uh all right so somewhere between my total unpreparedness for what

(00:15:29):

was going to happen and you like shouting the questions at me am i shouting i don’t

(00:15:34):

know i have this fancy podcast mike and i think it’s just like way better quality

(00:15:37):

than what you’re used to yeah well this is my little like for my um what’s that

(00:15:44):

thing that michael scott did with thickrum you know the phone bank job he moonlit

(00:15:49):

that’s what it reminds me of

(00:15:52):

The headset when he did telemarketing?

(00:15:55):

Telemarketing, that’s the word I’m looking for.

(00:15:57):

Okay.

(00:15:59):

It reminds you of telemarketing.

(00:16:01):

Yeah, me too, now that you say it.

(00:16:06):

That’s another interesting thing.

(00:16:09):

I did that at Kansas.

(00:16:10):

That’s one of the reasons I loved Kansas so much because I had the most bomb-ass

(00:16:13):

job of my whole life.

(00:16:13):

I was like a telemarketer for the Alumni Association, not the Endowment Association.

(00:16:18):

And I would just call alum relentlessly and be like, hey, I’m Kylie.

(00:16:22):

Please give to the university.

(00:16:23):

And they’d be like, okay, you sound great.

(00:16:26):

I feel like everything that you talk about being awesome is stuff that I would hate.

(00:16:30):

Like being a telemarketer, like hanging out with priests.

(00:16:34):

living with homeless people like these all sound terrible to me to be fair I live

(00:16:38):

in my own home well yeah I love living the gospel I think it’s really important to

(00:16:43):

live the beatitudes and like to be a person who has a charitable heart and does

(00:16:48):

good work and also what do you got what do you got for that and also calls people

(00:16:53):

for to give them money well the university needs money how are we going to get

(00:16:57):

these like kids from western Kansas educated

(00:17:01):

That’s the fascinating thing to me.

(00:17:03):

I think a lot of people would resonate with this idea of those are good things,

(00:17:07):

but they’re like,

(00:17:08):

I don’t want to do it.

(00:17:09):

But you do it.

(00:17:10):

You like it.

(00:17:11):

You like this kind of stuff.

(00:17:14):

Yeah.

(00:17:15):

I like actually doing the work instead of watching all these little pussies run

(00:17:18):

around,

(00:17:19):

sniveling about how everything is busted and sitting on their candy bar eating

(00:17:23):

asses all day.

(00:17:27):

Okay, you’ve alluded to it, then I don’t even understand.

(00:17:29):

So what is, what are you, like these homeless people?

(00:17:31):

I mean,

(00:17:32):

now we’re going out of my like little notes here,

(00:17:35):

but talk about your homeless people thing since now we buried the lead.

(00:17:39):

What is your homeless person gig now then?

(00:17:42):

My gig?

(00:17:44):

I am what’s called a missional at...

(00:17:48):

Community First Village in Austin, Texas.

(00:17:50):

So it is a master playing community of tiny homes and PMRVs and the first 3D

(00:17:56):

printed homes in the United States are there.

(00:17:57):

Icon Homes built their houses.

(00:17:59):

Wait, what?

(00:18:00):

Icon?

(00:18:00):

Like legit 3D printed?

(00:18:02):

Yeah,

(00:18:02):

there’s like an arm out there that like squeezes these houses out and my neighbors

(00:18:07):

live in them.

(00:18:08):

Holy cow.

(00:18:09):

Pretty sick.

(00:18:10):

Yeah.

(00:18:11):

One of the gentlemen he just passed.

(00:18:13):

I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything 3D print something that’s like larger than a keychain.

(00:18:17):

Yeah, it’s cool.

(00:18:18):

For a while they used to have,

(00:18:20):

now they’re a little bit more comfortable,

(00:18:22):

I think just like generally as a company,

(00:18:23):

but for a long time they would put these huge tarps up because they didn’t want to,

(00:18:26):

or anyone,

(00:18:27):

stealing like their IP and like reverse engineering the process.

(00:18:30):

It’s super cool.

(00:18:31):

They’re made out of this proprietary material called Lavacrete, but I digress.

(00:18:35):

So it’s a master plan community right now there’s like a few there’s like 500 and

(00:18:41):

change homes like ultimately they’re supposed to be like well over 1000.

(00:18:45):

And the mission is empowering communities to live.

(00:18:50):

Oh shoot I know the mission I’m doing a bad job.

(00:18:55):

Empowering communities into a lifestyle of service with the homeless.

(00:18:59):

Empowering communities into a lifestyle of service with the homeless.

(00:19:02):

And so we are really strategically focused on bringing men and women out of

(00:19:08):

homelessness in the Austin,

(00:19:10):

Texas area because all of the research basically supports that homelessness is

(00:19:15):

actually a symptom of a catastrophic loss of family.

(00:19:19):

And while there are like another of other factors that like usually flow from

(00:19:24):

having a catastrophic loss of family or would make a person like homeless,

(00:19:29):

like having a mental or physical disability or dependency on alcohol or drugs or

(00:19:35):

Any other number of things.

(00:19:37):

Or just like traumatic life experience, whatever.

(00:19:40):

It’s really catastrophic loss of family.

(00:19:42):

That’s like the big catalyst for why a person would end up on the streets.

(00:19:45):

So what we, I say loosely, I just live there as like a missional.

(00:19:51):

You, you’re the representative of this entire organization.

(00:19:53):

Again, just me.

(00:19:57):

Not at all.

(00:19:58):

So what Mobile Loves and Fishers and Community First Village is trying to do is

(00:20:02):

like reconstitute,

(00:20:03):

forge family and community for these men and women.

(00:20:07):

And so, yeah, so like the village is out there.

(00:20:09):

It’s very permanent housing.

(00:20:11):

If one of my,

(00:20:11):

if my neighbor wants to live in it for the rest of their lives,

(00:20:14):

like it’s not a halfway house.

(00:20:15):

It’s not a rehab.

(00:20:16):

It’s like, it’s a place where they can live.

(00:20:18):

It’s a neighborhood.

(00:20:18):

Yeah.

(00:20:19):

We have like a little grocery store,

(00:20:21):

we have a bus stop,

(00:20:22):

we have like a little shuttle that runs around the neighborhood because most of my

(00:20:26):

neighbors have physical or mental or both kind of disabilities so it just makes it

(00:20:30):

easier for everybody to get around and it’s also just like hot.

(00:20:34):

By C.S.

(00:20:34):

Beaty By C.S.

(00:20:35):

Beaty By C.S.

(00:20:35):

Beaty By C.S.

(00:20:35):

Beaty By C.S.

(00:20:36):

Beaty By C.S.

(00:20:36):

Beaty By C.S.

(00:20:37):

Beaty By C.S.

(00:20:38):

Beaty By C.S.

(00:20:39):

Beaty By C.S.

(00:21:03):

The way people interact with the homeless, which is another big part.

(00:21:09):

So yeah,

(00:21:09):

so I live out there and I like just kind of like live to be of service with my

(00:21:13):

neighbors and walk alongside them and just be a friend.

(00:21:19):

Is it like a mixed income like model?

(00:21:21):

So the idea is like there’s a bunch of people like you that have jobs or whatever

(00:21:25):

and like in similar arrangements with the people that don’t have money.

(00:21:28):

So that way the overall culture is stronger and

(00:21:32):

What not?

(00:21:32):

Is that kind of the idea?

(00:21:33):

Well, kind of.

(00:21:36):

So I feel like your question is ill-informed.

(00:21:38):

Okay, inform me.

(00:21:41):

So my neighbors...

(00:21:44):

By C.S.

(00:21:44):

Beaty

(00:22:05):

Who works at like a very cool hipster Mexican cantina in town and not her name is

(00:22:09):

Kathy and she works at like this restaurant a lot of people work off site like

(00:22:13):

there is a one man who’s standing up his own like car detailing business name is

(00:22:17):

Joseph so there’s like any number of ways that people are making income out there.

(00:22:20):

And they’re all like responsible for their own rent and utilities like any other apartment.

(00:22:26):

But then.

(00:22:29):

There are there’s like so like I said,

(00:22:31):

I’m a missional and there’s probably about 40 other missionals who live out there

(00:22:35):

and they’re kind of a mixed bag of like retired folks or there’s like another woman

(00:22:40):

who’s about my age.

(00:22:42):

But then there’s like a couple of families like there’s all kinds of people who are

(00:22:46):

missionals and are just like out there to be of service in one way or another.

(00:22:50):

So some of them are working full time.

(00:22:51):

Some of them are retired.

(00:22:53):

Some of them are working part time.

(00:22:54):

Some work

(00:22:55):

For Mobile Loaves and Fishes.

(00:22:57):

So yeah,

(00:22:58):

that group is a very mixed bag,

(00:23:00):

but we all kind of have the same charge of empowering communities into a lifestyle

(00:23:05):

of service.

(00:23:06):

Yeah.

(00:23:07):

So is that like you applied for that or you get like, okay.

(00:23:11):

Yeah,

(00:23:11):

it’s like,

(00:23:11):

it’s like a,

(00:23:12):

so there’s an application and then there’s like a year long,

(00:23:14):

we call it a discernment process where you like,

(00:23:18):

there’s like a certain like set of books that you read that are kind of like

(00:23:21):

informative of like what the culture is going to be like,

(00:23:23):

because it’s a very unique place to live,

(00:23:27):

for sure.

(00:23:28):

So yeah,

(00:23:29):

there’s like kind of like a small curriculum of books that you read,

(00:23:32):

you get assigned a mentor with like who you can ask questions,

(00:23:35):

you have to live out there,

(00:23:36):

like,

(00:23:37):

for like,

(00:23:37):

like a week or two weeks,

(00:23:38):

I can’t remember just to like make sure you’re

(00:23:41):

You feel called you have to do like a certain number of volunteer hours like we

(00:23:45):

have like I mentioned the market or there’s a place called the living room where we

(00:23:48):

play like the NBA finals games or we like there’s like a pinball machine or like my

(00:23:53):

one of my friends does like a knitting circle there like so just being like part of

(00:23:56):

the living room or doing whatever and like there’s an art house like Kendra Scott

(00:24:01):

was partnered with the mobile lobes for a long time doing like gig work like my

(00:24:05):

neighbors were making some of the bracelets that went on to sell at Kendra Scott so

(00:24:09):

yeah

(00:24:10):

There’s lots of ways to volunteer and really discern whether that’s the thing that

(00:24:15):

you’re meant to be doing.

(00:24:16):

Backing up, you and I, we met each other.

(00:24:18):

You were doing a sales gig.

(00:24:20):

You actually, I think, hated that, which is ironic.

(00:24:23):

You hated that.

(00:24:25):

Give me the comment how you like all the stuff that other people hate, but you did hate that.

(00:24:27):

I hate that a lot.

(00:24:28):

I think a lot of people hate sales.

(00:24:31):

I do hate sales.

(00:24:36):

You told me you hated it back when you were in it.

(00:24:38):

Yeah, I hated it.

(00:24:39):

I was trying to also tease out that I also hated it, especially in California.

(00:24:44):

The people I worked with was very challenging, super toxic.

(00:24:49):

I left that job, went to a new job.

(00:24:51):

Within the first week I had started that job,

(00:24:53):

got served literally legal papers by this sketchy chain-smoking man who was hanging

(00:24:58):

out outside my office for two days and then had to testify in court against

(00:25:05):

Both the manager who was fired and one who was like quitting because she was like

(00:25:09):

being wrongfully turned.

(00:25:10):

I don’t know.

(00:25:10):

Like it was such a toxic and crazy place.

(00:25:12):

So I was trying.

(00:25:13):

I don’t know if I hate sales.

(00:25:15):

You hated that job.

(00:25:18):

It’s hard to tease that out.

(00:25:19):

I can say that somebody’s been in sales for 15 years.

(00:25:22):

Sometimes you hate sales.

(00:25:23):

Sometimes you just hate being in a company that you’re trying to represent that isn’t terrible.

(00:25:29):

Yeah, yeah.

(00:25:30):

You should totally buy all our stuff because it’s definitely not awful here.

(00:25:33):

This company is definitely not terrible.

(00:25:35):

We’re doing great.

(00:25:37):

Yeah.

(00:25:38):

Okay,

(00:25:40):

so you’re at the Cincinnati office,

(00:25:41):

which you go from Cincinnati,

(00:25:43):

which is according to Tom Brady’s documentary about the Birmingham Blues that I

(00:25:46):

just watched,

(00:25:47):

is a very

(00:25:49):

By C.S.

(00:25:49):

Beaty

(00:26:11):

So he doesn’t know.

(00:26:12):

But anyway,

(00:26:12):

so you go from Cincinnati to Silicon Valley in San Francisco,

(00:26:15):

which is like,

(00:26:16):

you know,

(00:26:16):

I think regardless of Tom Brady’s characterization,

(00:26:19):

very,

(00:26:19):

very different.

(00:26:20):

Is that fair to say?

(00:26:21):

Yeah, I think so.

(00:26:23):

Okay.

(00:26:23):

Yeah.

(00:26:24):

And then you’re totally Silicon Valley now, like you’re working for startups or whatever.

(00:26:28):

Well,

(00:26:28):

you go,

(00:26:29):

you do the,

(00:26:29):

you work for the same company for a while that I’m currently at,

(00:26:33):

which is very corporate,

(00:26:34):

big,

(00:26:35):

you know,

(00:26:35):

behemoth,

(00:26:36):

working for the man,

(00:26:38):

whatever.

(00:26:39):

And then you go to a Silicon Valley startup

(00:26:41):

This lady wrote a book about Uncanny Valley, a memoir by Anna.

(00:26:45):

Uncanny Valley, yeah.

(00:26:46):

Yeah.

(00:26:47):

I remember I read this book and I told you about it and you’re like, that book is terrible.

(00:26:51):

Like you hated it.

(00:26:52):

I didn’t hate it.

(00:26:53):

I didn’t finish it.

(00:26:54):

I did because after I got through the part about the company that I worked at,

(00:26:58):

I was like,

(00:26:59):

this is not compelling anymore.

(00:27:00):

Her writing’s not that good.

(00:27:02):

It’s been on the order of years that I was meant to have written a better version.

(00:27:07):

Yeah.

(00:27:08):

Yeah.

(00:27:09):

I don’t doubt you could have written a better version of that book.

(00:27:12):

Yeah, we discussed at length that I could easily have cranked out a better version.

(00:27:17):

And then you went and actually wrote a book.

(00:27:18):

So now I really have to do it.

(00:27:21):

Yeah, no, you definitely have to do that.

(00:27:22):

This is a New York Times bestseller book.

(00:27:23):

I know.

(00:27:25):

You really missed the train on that.

(00:27:27):

So I was compelled by that book because I thought like there was a from in my

(00:27:31):

perception there’s like this romantic note like I think now we all agree that

(00:27:35):

Silicon Valley is awful.

(00:27:36):

Like I think most of us like that’s not a hot take anymore.

(00:27:39):

Like there’s a lot of downside right like nobody actually likes Mark Zuckerberg anymore.

(00:27:44):

Maybe we used to but I don’t think anybody actually likes I used to be a fan.

(00:27:47):

I’ll probably be canceled when this gas takes off.

(00:27:51):

Yeah, yeah.

(00:27:51):

Just wait.

(00:27:52):

As soon as I hit send, your career’s over.

(00:27:56):

Send to the podcast world.

(00:27:58):

Yeah.

(00:27:59):

But when I read that book, I think I was still very much my romantic Silicon Valley period.

(00:28:04):

And then that was the first thing I read by a quote unquote insider.

(00:28:07):

It was like, no, actually, this is also terrible.

(00:28:10):

Like just everything kind of sucks.

(00:28:12):

The difference is if you go to a giant company,

(00:28:14):

you’re working for people that have had jobs before versus Silicon Valley.

(00:28:18):

Yeah.

(00:28:19):

There are no parents.

(00:28:20):

Yeah.

(00:28:20):

I have no idea what they’re doing.

(00:28:22):

Yeah.

(00:28:22):

I think some of that has changed just because,

(00:28:24):

like,

(00:28:25):

I don’t know if there,

(00:28:26):

I would say,

(00:28:27):

like,

(00:28:27):

I feel now,

(00:28:28):

like,

(00:28:29):

so when I was working at that first startup,

(00:28:31):

I feel like everyone was kind of my age.

(00:28:35):

And so now we’ve all become, like, 30-something.

(00:28:38):

So I don’t know.

(00:28:39):

Like,

(00:28:39):

I feel like we’re all kind of,

(00:28:40):

like,

(00:28:40):

still,

(00:28:40):

it’s,

(00:28:40):

like,

(00:28:40):

the same pledge class of,

(00:28:42):

like,

(00:28:43):

people getting older.

(00:28:44):

It also feels like a very Silicon Valley thing to say at the same time.

(00:28:48):

Did you have an employee number?

(00:28:49):

Like employee number or something, something?

(00:28:52):

That’s a very Silicon Valley thing.

(00:28:53):

I used to.

(00:28:55):

Not here, I don’t.

(00:28:56):

Because we have, I think we have really close to a thousand people.

(00:28:58):

And the company I’ve been at now has been around for like 10 or 12 years.

(00:29:01):

So it’s not as important.

(00:29:03):

And they IPO’d already, so it doesn’t matter.

(00:29:05):

But you were, at one point you had a number when you were in San Francisco.

(00:29:08):

Like that’s how cool you were.

(00:29:10):

Well, one time I was at a startup where I was like truly like number like 43 or something.

(00:29:15):

Yeah, it was hella toxic.

(00:29:18):

It was terrible.

(00:29:18):

But is that when you like, all right, so you’re at San Francisco for a while.

(00:29:25):

You had like three or four different stars, right?

(00:29:27):

Or just multiple.

(00:29:27):

I don’t know the exact number.

(00:29:28):

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(00:29:31):

Is that when you decided to go to like do this change your life around to live with

(00:29:34):

the amongst the people instead of the tech bros in Austin?

(00:29:39):

Yeah.

(00:29:39):

Well, I mean, I still like nine to five.

(00:29:41):

I’m like among my tech bros.

(00:29:43):

I haven’t quit the tech bros.

(00:29:45):

Okay, so you’re still a tech bro.

(00:29:46):

Yeah, yeah.

(00:29:48):

But is that like what am I five to nine?

(00:29:49):

Did you move from San Francisco to Texas to do this?

(00:29:52):

No, no.

(00:29:52):

I uncovered that like completely.

(00:29:54):

So I left SF in 2020, moved to Austin.

(00:29:58):

And that was in July when I moved.

(00:30:02):

And then in December of that year, like I said, so Alamo Drafthouse has that big

(00:30:08):

Amphitheater and they were like they had pivoted like everyone had pivoted from

(00:30:11):

like their normal course of action to something else so instead of doing like their

(00:30:14):

Friday night movies in this big amphitheater they had made it so that we were doing

(00:30:19):

drive-in movies and it was Christmas time and my friends and I were just like

(00:30:24):

So desperate for anything to do in 2020 because everything had been shut down and changed.

(00:30:28):

And so we were like,

(00:30:29):

we just booked these random tickets to go see Home Alone at this like drive in.

(00:30:33):

And it turned out the drive in was actually at the village.

(00:30:36):

And so I met like a bunch of people who became my neighbors.

(00:30:40):

But that’s when I got plugged.

(00:30:41):

So I found out about it because they play like a big trailer before they play the movie.

(00:30:44):

That’s like, this is our village.

(00:30:45):

And this is why we’re so interesting and unique and are making such a big impact.

(00:30:49):

And then and you also go on a tour just to see like

(00:30:53):

The neighborhood and then yeah then we watched a movie and it’s awesome and then

(00:30:57):

yeah and then I found out a bunch of people from my church actually like are super

(00:31:01):

plugged in out there so I yeah so I got plugged in too so it was just like all

(00:31:06):

providential so you you went from San Francisco to Austin just like why why Austin

(00:31:13):

just because it’s the closest Midwest yeah basically you want to be back in the

(00:31:19):

Midwest but you want to still be a cool liberal

(00:31:22):

They just don’t want to be cool.

(00:31:23):

Tech bro.

(00:31:24):

Yeah.

(00:31:25):

That was literally it.

(00:31:26):

That was the answer.

(00:31:27):

I nailed it.

(00:31:30):

Really what happened was my best friend in San Francisco she was like she hit a

(00:31:36):

wall one day with COVID she was like I’m done like I’m out of here and she’s from

(00:31:39):

Texas so she was like I’m buying a house because at the time she was working for a

(00:31:42):

company that had an office in Austin so she was like they’ll let me move I’m buying

(00:31:46):

a house I’m getting out I’m going back to Texas and I was like I like grabbed a

(00:31:49):

duffel bag and I was like take me with you for the love of God so again also very

(00:31:55):

providential I like just like kind of followed her like a sad puppy

(00:31:59):

Out of California.

(00:32:01):

You just were looking for any reason to get out of California.

(00:32:03):

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(00:32:05):

Okay.

(00:32:06):

COVID was so tough in the Bay.

(00:32:08):

Well,

(00:32:09):

I remember that because I was supposed to,

(00:32:10):

I was,

(00:32:10):

I canceled my anniversary trip to Napa Valley to hang out,

(00:32:14):

in part to hang out with you.

(00:32:16):

Yeah.

(00:32:16):

March 2021.

(00:32:17):

Yeah, yeah.

(00:32:20):

Because I was supposed to go hang out and then it was just like this steady stream

(00:32:22):

of cancellation emails.

(00:32:23):

Like your Alcatraz tour is canceled.

(00:32:25):

Your flight is canceled.

(00:32:27):

Everything’s canceled.

(00:32:28):

You’re sending me an email being like,

(00:32:29):

I’m not going to tell you not to come,

(00:32:31):

but you probably shouldn’t.

(00:32:33):

But like, don’t.

(00:32:34):

Don’t?

(00:32:34):

I don’t really want you in my house.

(00:32:37):

With all your Nebraska germs.

(00:32:41):

Yeah.

(00:32:42):

Was it?

(00:32:43):

So, all right.

(00:32:43):

So COVID, that was like the COVID though.

(00:32:46):

If it wasn’t for COVID, do you think you’d still be out there?

(00:32:48):

Or is it just like- I don’t know.

(00:32:50):

It’s impossible to say.

(00:32:51):

Yeah.

(00:32:53):

I’m not sure.

(00:32:53):

I mean, the company I work for now has HQ there, so it wouldn’t be crazy.

(00:32:58):

I mean,

(00:33:01):

other than the,

(00:33:02):

like,

(00:33:03):

obviously the missional homeless people that aren’t actually homeless because I

(00:33:08):

have ill-informed questions people.

(00:33:10):

Other than that, I feel like your corporate life, I mean, is it that much different?

(00:33:15):

Like Austin versus San Francisco?

(00:33:16):

Because I just look at Austin, I think, oh, that’s just San Francisco with cowboy boots.

(00:33:21):

No, I think that’s incorrect.

(00:33:24):

But I mean, I work from home full time, so I don’t even go into an office, which is pretty nice.

(00:33:34):

But I do miss the luxury of an SF office.

(00:33:39):

Like

(00:33:40):

What like Jamba Juice smoothies and like breakfast in the office like my per diem

(00:33:46):

now is like $30 less per day when I’m in SF because I’m like expected to eat

(00:33:52):

breakfast and lunch in the office at least because it’s always there.

(00:33:55):

There’s plenty of coffee.

(00:33:56):

There’s nitro on tap.

(00:33:58):

There’s cold brew.

(00:33:59):

There’s there’s like beers and stuff.

(00:34:02):

Yeah, whatever, whatever.

(00:34:03):

There’s snacks out all the time.

(00:34:05):

And that’s like par for the course anywhere in San Francisco.

(00:34:08):

Yeah, I would say my office is just like another one of the very nice offices.

(00:34:11):

Yeah, not one of the exceptional ones.

(00:34:14):

But isn’t it like you get all that stuff like in lieu of like a 401k?

(00:34:18):

You’re like you could have all this.

(00:34:19):

No, I have a 401k.

(00:34:21):

Okay.

(00:34:21):

All right.

(00:34:24):

I don’t know.

(00:34:25):

Just like peanut M&Ms instead of a 401k.

(00:34:28):

I don’t know.

(00:34:28):

You might.

(00:34:32):

So what all right so what is your what is your job now you’re making apps for the

(00:34:35):

PGA Tour like what do you do.

(00:34:37):

And now I am a technical success manager at a startup called Amplitude.

(00:34:43):

You’re customer obsessed.

(00:34:45):

According to LinkedIn you’re customer obsessed.

(00:34:47):

I am customer obsessed.

(00:34:50):

Customer obsessed.

(00:34:54):

Yeah,

(00:34:54):

so I work with a number of customers to help their like product and marketing

(00:35:00):

experiences,

(00:35:02):

just like their digital,

(00:35:03):

their overall like digital footprints.

(00:35:06):

Okay, you said a lot of buzzwords.

(00:35:07):

I don’t know what any of that means.

(00:35:09):

What is the overall digital footprints and customer success?

(00:35:12):

What does it actually do?

(00:35:14):

What are the actual machinations of my job?

(00:35:16):

I don’t have to tell you.

(00:35:18):

What are yours?

(00:35:18):

What do you even do?

(00:35:19):

You talk about digital footprints and customer success.

(00:35:22):

What do you do?

(00:35:22):

You blow air across building?

(00:35:24):

None of it means anything.

(00:35:27):

At least when we both used to work at an HVAC, calm down, it’s my podcast.

(00:35:31):

At least when we used to work at an HVAC company,

(00:35:33):

we’d be like,

(00:35:34):

we make cold air,

(00:35:35):

and now it’s like we’ve created a digital footprint.

(00:35:37):

I didn’t make it.

(00:35:39):

You could feel cold air, like I don’t even know what a digital footprint even is.

(00:35:44):

So when you open an app, like for anyone, really...

(00:35:48):

You open the app and you’re like doing some stuff and I can pull all of that data.

(00:35:52):

Like I have a product.

(00:35:53):

Amplitude is the product that like shows like that customer journey and customer behavior.

(00:35:57):

So then we can like optimize like speed to checkout or we can optimize just like your general.

(00:36:02):

Like if it’s buggy,

(00:36:02):

we can optimize the experience or we can start to work out of product to like nudge

(00:36:07):

people into the into the app or the web store or whatever it is and just like make

(00:36:12):

it more fun and more relevant.

(00:36:13):

So like

(00:36:14):

When you’re searching,

(00:36:15):

you’re not seeing the same bright,

(00:36:17):

shiny,

(00:36:17):

fun,

(00:36:18):

optimistic things that I’m seeing.

(00:36:19):

You’re seeing crotchety old dad shit.

(00:36:22):

That’s what I’m seeing.

(00:36:24):

That’s what I like.

(00:36:25):

Exactly.

(00:36:26):

Your algorithm is tied into who you are.

(00:36:30):

So you’re part of the problem is what I’m hearing.

(00:36:32):

You’re one of the people that’s making it so we can’t ever get off of our phones.

(00:36:35):

You want to make sure that we’re all sucked into the ready player one.

(00:36:40):

One of the things I really enjoy is helping customers see that good churn is a solution.

(00:36:48):

You want someone to do what they need to do and then maybe not come back for a long

(00:36:52):

time because they feel satisfied and got it done.

(00:36:55):

And one of the symptoms of a bad product or bad marketing experience is someone

(00:37:00):

dragging through or slogging through or having to repeat visits in some instances.

(00:37:06):

Yeah.

(00:37:07):

So you like want me to get in,

(00:37:09):

give you my credit card information right away and then move on to something else.

(00:37:12):

That way I can come up with some new thing to spend my money on later than just do

(00:37:16):

that really effectively.

(00:37:18):

If you want, I don’t know, like not all the apps are like some apps are for calendars.

(00:37:22):

You’re not buying anything on the calendar app.

(00:37:25):

Okay.

(00:37:27):

But you want to make sure that I’m staring my calendar app all day.

(00:37:30):

No, that’s what I mean.

(00:37:31):

You shouldn’t be.

(00:37:31):

It should be really smooth.

(00:37:33):

It should be integrated.

(00:37:34):

It should be seamless.

(00:37:35):

And you should be like, all done.

(00:37:36):

I love it.

(00:37:38):

Do you love your calendar app?

(00:37:40):

I do love my calendar app.

(00:37:42):

That was actually really like Calendly just,

(00:37:45):

not Calendly,

(00:37:46):

Clockwise just sold out to Salesforce.

(00:37:48):

And I was devastated.

(00:37:51):

Now I just have to rely on Google Calendar.

(00:37:54):

They’re coming up to speed nicely, but it’s going to be a while.

(00:37:58):

Oh, wow.

(00:37:59):

I’m sorry for your loss.

(00:38:01):

I don’t even know what calendar app I use.

(00:38:03):

I have this calendar.

(00:38:05):

This is awesome.

(00:38:06):

It’s like manual.

(00:38:08):

It’s hard to...

(00:38:09):

This is not going to translate well to the podcast.

(00:38:11):

What is that?

(00:38:12):

It’s something from this hipster store where I literally have this piece of paper

(00:38:15):

that I flip over to tell me what day it is.

(00:38:17):

That’s fine.

(00:38:18):

I like that.

(00:38:19):

That’s very tactile.

(00:38:21):

Oh, yeah.

(00:38:21):

I have all that tactile experience.

(00:38:23):

Yeah.

(00:38:24):

That’s why I think that you’re one of the people ruining my life.

(00:38:28):

With all your optimization and digital footprints.

(00:38:33):

Yeah, sure.

(00:38:37):

Who else is ruining your life?

(00:38:38):

Who else is ruining your life?

(00:38:39):

Oh, it’s a long list.

(00:38:40):

That’s why I say this podcast.

(00:38:41):

I just want to confront all these people.

(00:38:45):

Are you running any marathons or doing stand-up comedy right now?

(00:38:49):

I have a competition in August.

(00:38:53):

A marathon or a stand-up comedy competition?

(00:38:55):

A stand-up.

(00:38:56):

I need a type 5.

(00:38:57):

Maybe type four.

(00:38:58):

I’m like, yeah, I need to get on it.

(00:39:01):

I need to be doing some open mics.

(00:39:04):

Are you still actively trying to get good at stand up?

(00:39:08):

No,

(00:39:08):

I mean,

(00:39:09):

I mean,

(00:39:09):

like always kind of,

(00:39:10):

but like not actively,

(00:39:11):

like not in my actual spare time.

(00:39:14):

You’re not the guy that’s sorry, not the guy.

(00:39:17):

You’re not a guy.

(00:39:18):

You’re not the person that’s trying to actively.

(00:39:21):

Most people I would like not correct myself after saying that.

(00:39:23):

But with you, I know it’s important to you.

(00:39:26):

It’s important to everyone.

(00:39:28):

It’s less important to some people.

(00:39:31):

You’re on the,

(00:39:33):

you know,

(00:39:34):

as far as the customer digital footprint experience of using the word guy

(00:39:38):

incorrectly,

(00:39:39):

I got to correct that real quick.

(00:39:41):

Otherwise, you’ll be canceled.

(00:39:44):

Yeah, it’ll cancel and just like derail you.

(00:39:46):

Sorry.

(00:39:47):

Good luck moving.

(00:39:48):

My question was, so you’re not the person that’s like trying to do like

(00:39:54):

I don’t know if you’ve seen the,

(00:39:55):

have you seen the,

(00:39:55):

he’s a terrible pocket,

(00:39:57):

what’s the guy,

(00:39:58):

Pete Holmes show,

(00:39:59):

stand-up,

(00:40:00):

the stand-up show where he’s just like.

(00:40:02):

Crashing.

(00:40:03):

Yeah, crashing.

(00:40:05):

Where like every single night he’s going trying to get like open mic nights and

(00:40:07):

handing out flyers because this is like his life’s passion and he wants to get

(00:40:10):

really,

(00:40:10):

really awesome at it.

(00:40:11):

I mean, it like is, I would love to be good at it.

(00:40:14):

It’s so much fun,

(00:40:15):

but I like,

(00:40:17):

I’m working,

(00:40:17):

I have like a real job,

(00:40:19):

unfortunately,

(00:40:19):

at this moment,

(00:40:20):

so.

(00:40:21):

Would you ever quit your real job to do the fun thing?

(00:40:24):

Yeah, I would.

(00:40:25):

I totally would.

(00:40:28):

I don’t know when the benchmark...

(00:40:30):

I don’t know what I’d have to...

(00:40:31):

I’d have to be feeling pretty confident, but I totally would.

(00:40:35):

Yeah.

(00:40:36):

Yeah.

(00:40:39):

I can relate to that.

(00:40:39):

I’m just looking for a reason to quit my job every single day.

(00:40:44):

I’m not looking for a reason to quit, but

(00:40:46):

But like in a hypothetical world where I was just like,

(00:40:49):

I had plenty of time to go to open mics every night at like,

(00:40:52):

and do a 2am spot,

(00:40:53):

even just like,

(00:40:54):

it’s not even about time.

(00:40:55):

It’s just about like, that makes me feel so tired.

(00:40:58):

Yeah.

(00:41:00):

I feel like standup is definitely a young person’s game.

(00:41:03):

I wouldn’t say a young man’s game, but I know that I know better than to say that.

(00:41:07):

A young person’s game.

(00:41:09):

Good for you.

(00:41:09):

Well,

(00:41:09):

and like,

(00:41:10):

I actually go to it,

(00:41:11):

like there used to be a standup club like five minutes from my house.

(00:41:13):

And so I go to that

(00:41:15):

I don’t know whenever somebody was good there but it’s like now it’s I would see

(00:41:19):

stand-ups that I like I knew who they were from like weird 90s movies and it just

(00:41:23):

looks rough like yeah they’re still funny but it’s like these 60 year old guys who

(00:41:28):

are like huge in 93 and it’s just like you’re doing a set that starts at 9 30 p.m

(00:41:33):

it’s your third set of the day and you’re in Omaha like yeah the only reason why

(00:41:38):

people come to

(00:41:39):

We have an excellent stand-up comedy club in Omaha.

(00:41:43):

Like one that like literally they always talk about how awesome it is.

(00:41:46):

But it’s because they,

(00:41:48):

it’s one of those where people go to work on new material before doing it like,

(00:41:51):

you know,

(00:41:52):

selling out an arena or something.

(00:41:53):

So like Nate Bargatze in his latest special did like three nights at our tiny

(00:41:57):

little 40-man stand-up comedy club.

(00:42:00):

So we could test out the material for now is, what is it?

(00:42:02):

His big dumb eyes tour.

(00:42:04):

So like we get like really good acts, but it’s definitely one of those things where I see these

(00:42:08):

I see these people and I’m like, I can’t stay up this late past nine on a given night.

(00:42:14):

I’m 36.

(00:42:15):

I feel old, but these guys, when they were 36, they were still in SNL.

(00:42:20):

It’s crazy.

(00:42:21):

Yeah, crazy how old you are.

(00:42:23):

Yeah, that was the point of that.

(00:42:24):

Did you ever end up getting that K-Money tattoo that you were going to do that your

(00:42:28):

friends talked about?

(00:42:29):

No, I did not.

(00:42:29):

I did not.

(00:42:32):

What was it going to be?

(00:42:34):

I don’t even remember anymore.

(00:42:35):

Yeah, I’m really glad I didn’t.

(00:42:37):

I feel like getting a tattoo of your own nickname is challenging.

(00:42:42):

In what way?

(00:42:44):

What’s the challenging part of it?

(00:42:46):

Just that you have to live with that for your whole life.

(00:42:49):

You have to live with knowing you were that much of a douche that you got your own

(00:42:52):

name tatted on you.

(00:42:53):

I may have done that.

(00:42:58):

You have a tattoo that says Christopher?

(00:43:00):

No, so I got a tattoo of my name in Greek.

(00:43:04):

Like, is the word in Greek?

(00:43:06):

Just like in case you ever get lost in, like, Mykonos?

(00:43:09):

Yeah, I can’t speak Greek.

(00:43:10):

It can identify your body.

(00:43:11):

Yeah, I don’t even speak Greek, so it can say anything, really.

(00:43:14):

Yeah, yeah, it can say that’s hot.

(00:43:17):

Yeah, it’s like one of those, you know, it’s like... Why did you do that?

(00:43:22):

Walk me through that.

(00:43:25):

Well, I think it was one of those things where, like,

(00:43:29):

Just the look of like Greek words was like really cool with like within the little

(00:43:33):

group of circle of people that I was in for a while.

(00:43:35):

Like that was like the Christian tattoo.

(00:43:37):

And I’m talking about like when I say my group of people,

(00:43:40):

this is where like the Protestant and the Catholic like path is probably very

(00:43:44):

divergent.

(00:43:45):

Like cool Christian tattoos when I was a kid or like an adolescent,

(00:43:50):

we’re all like you get your own name in Greek.

(00:43:53):

Well, just anything in Greek, anything in Hebrew.

(00:43:55):

Like, you could have gotten, like, John 3.16, but in Greek, and you chose to get your own name.

(00:44:00):

Yeah, I could have.

(00:44:00):

Well, I mean, it’s all the same to me.

(00:44:03):

Cool, cool, cool.

(00:44:04):

Yeah.

(00:44:05):

Yeah, uh-huh.

(00:44:07):

Yeah, got it.

(00:44:07):

So, yeah, so now I can live with that for the rest of my life.

(00:44:10):

Well,

(00:44:10):

I actually have,

(00:44:11):

like,

(00:44:11):

this whole bigger,

(00:44:12):

like,

(00:44:12):

metaphor of,

(00:44:13):

like,

(00:44:13):

so my name is Christopher.

(00:44:15):

Which is like Greek for his two Greek words,

(00:44:17):

Christus and Pharos,

(00:44:19):

which means bearer or bringer of Christ,

(00:44:21):

depending on which Google definition you pick.

(00:44:24):

And it’s like I had this whole like thought about like,

(00:44:28):

you know,

(00:44:28):

a shield bearer and a lion and all this stuff.

(00:44:32):

And I’m like, well, none of it like it’s like would make any sense without like my name.

(00:44:36):

So I just started with the name and then I went, I don’t need all the rest of that stuff.

(00:44:40):

And now I’ll probably get covered up by something else at some point.

(00:44:42):

Hmm.

(00:44:43):

Hmm.

(00:44:43):

Hmm.

(00:44:45):

When did you get that tattoo?

(00:44:47):

Not that long ago.

(00:44:48):

I think like five years ago.

(00:44:49):

So you were 31.

(00:44:51):

This is like actually not.

(00:44:52):

Yeah, I was in my 30s.

(00:44:53):

Yeah.

(00:44:53):

Uh-huh.

(00:44:54):

Okay.

(00:44:54):

Well,

(00:44:54):

because you presented it like,

(00:44:56):

oh,

(00:44:56):

when I was a kid,

(00:44:57):

you know,

(00:44:58):

when I was like 18,

(00:44:59):

like going.

(00:45:00):

Well, this is like my second year being a dad.

(00:45:01):

I mean, I’m a whole different person now.

(00:45:05):

You also have this ability where like I could tell that exact same story to

(00:45:08):

somebody and not feel really judged and terrible about my choices.

(00:45:11):

But when I talk to you,

(00:45:13):

It’s just I always start a story and go like,

(00:45:15):

oh man,

(00:45:16):

I didn’t think this was dumb until I saw your reaction.

(00:45:22):

And it makes me wonder like, what are the truth is?

(00:45:24):

Like, am I really as terrible as I feel after I speak to you or not?

(00:45:28):

It’s hard to say.

(00:45:32):

No one knows.

(00:45:32):

You know what?

(00:45:32):

Before we...

(00:45:35):

Don’t talk about anything else.

(00:45:37):

I really do think we need to talk about how we got to know each other in our

(00:45:40):

reality game show environment that we were playing.

(00:45:42):

It was like living the real world.

(00:45:44):

Yeah.

(00:45:45):

So, okay.

(00:45:45):

So we were all uglier.

(00:45:46):

Yeah.

(00:45:47):

Do you want to describe what building efficiency sales training is or should I?

(00:45:51):

I think I want to hear your definition.

(00:45:54):

It’s called building efficiency sales training.

(00:45:56):

I don’t know if it still exists.

(00:45:57):

I’m sure there’s some version of it,

(00:45:58):

but it was specifically called building efficiency division anymore.

(00:46:01):

So they keep on changing what the D and the E stand for.

(00:46:04):

I still think that’s the best,

(00:46:06):

but I think they re-engineered what the acronym stands for every single

(00:46:10):

reorganization.

(00:46:11):

That makes sense.

(00:46:12):

I mean, that’s fine.

(00:46:13):

But yeah,

(00:46:14):

so they specifically used best so they can call this group of new grads the best

(00:46:19):

class that you’re recruited to this elite circle of Avengers.

(00:46:25):

It’s like meant to.

(00:46:28):

A new hire, corporate American new hires.

(00:46:30):

Corporate American new hires.

(00:46:31):

Everyone is like 22.

(00:46:34):

And you’re all,

(00:46:35):

yeah,

(00:46:35):

you’re all like plucked from your schools across the country and like assembled,

(00:46:39):

like I said,

(00:46:40):

into this all-star team.

(00:46:42):

And you come to fun and you’re like enamored with like this intercontinental travel

(00:46:47):

that you’re going to have.

(00:46:48):

And it turns out that’s just like Milwaukee and Oklahoma.

(00:46:51):

And Norman, Oklahoma.

(00:46:53):

And San Antonio, but not even the hardest thing.

(00:46:55):

Not even like, no, like where the factories are outside of San Antonio.

(00:46:59):

It’s the place where they can’t get any unions.

(00:47:01):

Like it’s literally...

(00:47:03):

They pick the area of San Antonio where union workers aren’t allowed to go.

(00:47:05):

It’s like forever outside of San Antonio.

(00:47:08):

So yeah.

(00:47:09):

And then sometimes if you’re lucky, you get to go to York, PA.

(00:47:12):

So yeah.

(00:47:13):

But it’s the first time.

(00:47:15):

I don’t know what was going on with our group,

(00:47:18):

but no one had any serious relationships coming out of college.

(00:47:22):

So everyone was single.

(00:47:23):

It was the first time we had an expense account.

(00:47:25):

We were all staying in a hotel.

(00:47:27):

So it was like suspended reality.

(00:47:31):

And we weren’t home with our regular friends for like two weeks at a time.

(00:47:34):

So we were like, had to like, like fuse into each other, like survive.

(00:47:40):

And then there was also a ranking system.

(00:47:43):

It was like, it was crazy.

(00:47:44):

It was crazy.

(00:47:47):

The closest thing I could think of is a reality game show.

(00:47:49):

And I felt that while I was in it too.

(00:47:51):

It felt to me like the real world.

(00:47:53):

Especially like the real world because there was no winning.

(00:47:56):

It was just, we were just on parade.

(00:47:58):

It was like, who’s like, is it anyway?

(00:48:00):

Because there was points though, but they didn’t matter.

(00:48:02):

Yeah, yeah.

(00:48:03):

But yeah, you couldn’t win.

(00:48:05):

You couldn’t win.

(00:48:06):

And it was like, okay, so yeah, just to, so every two weeks...

(00:48:11):

So we had about, what, 30 of us or so.

(00:48:13):

And I think most of us were from different cities.

(00:48:15):

There’s a few people that were, like, we had, like, Boston had, like, four people.

(00:48:18):

But most of us were from different cities.

(00:48:21):

And then we had one guy, Wassam, from Dubai, who was in our group for a little while.

(00:48:29):

And then he got transferred to a different group.

(00:48:31):

And they realized he doesn’t actually sell any of the things that we’re training him.

(00:48:34):

And the idea was that we would have a six-month training program,

(00:48:38):

but it was like two weeks on,

(00:48:39):

two weeks off.

(00:48:39):

So the first two weeks would be all these 20-somethings living in a hotel,

(00:48:44):

separate hotel rooms,

(00:48:45):

but in the same hotel for two weeks.

(00:48:47):

Then we’d go home, do a bunch of stupid homework, or maybe our real jobs.

(00:48:51):

Our real jobs.

(00:48:53):

I didn’t.

(00:48:53):

My boss was like, we’ll talk about your real job once your training’s over.

(00:48:57):

And then we just actually never really got to that part.

(00:48:59):

And I’m still there 12 years later, so I haven’t figured out what my job is.

(00:49:03):

So we go like two weeks in Milwaukee, and then we would go home to wherever home was.

(00:49:07):

And then we come back another two weeks in Milwaukee.

(00:49:09):

We did that for six straight weeks.

(00:49:11):

Was it that?

(00:49:12):

Six months.

(00:49:13):

Six months.

(00:49:14):

And it was at least,

(00:49:16):

I think it was eight weeks altogether living at a hotel room,

(00:49:20):

something like that.

(00:49:21):

I don’t know.

(00:49:21):

But yeah, six months long.

(00:49:22):

But it was my first experience.

(00:49:25):

You were in sororities.

(00:49:26):

And so I always felt like it was my college experience because I wasn’t in a fraternity.

(00:49:31):

I was in the engineering dorms for all the scholarship engineering nerds.

(00:49:35):

And so it was like, yeah, it was exactly what you would think.

(00:49:39):

It was all these people like I had the lowest ACT score on my floor.

(00:49:43):

Why were you guys even talking about your ACT scores?

(00:49:46):

I’m just saying,

(00:49:47):

as somebody who still had a good enough ACT score to get on a full ride engineering

(00:49:51):

scholarship,

(00:49:52):

I was the dumbest one.

(00:49:53):

So you can imagine what our social scene was like.

(00:49:57):

But then we go to,

(00:49:58):

you know,

(00:49:58):

so that was my five years of college because I don’t know if you knew this about

(00:50:01):

me,

(00:50:02):

but I have a master’s degree.

(00:50:03):

Yeah, I know, I know.

(00:50:03):

Five years of college.

(00:50:05):

And then we had this weird experience where,

(00:50:08):

like you said,

(00:50:08):

all of a sudden we have all unlimited funds and limited money because we can use

(00:50:12):

our work credit card to buy all of our food.

(00:50:14):

And it just turns into this weird free-for-all thing where we sit in an eight-hour

(00:50:18):

training session on air-cooled chiller.

(00:50:20):

Not even air-cooled chiller.

(00:50:23):

It was like the individual parts of air-cooled chiller.

(00:50:25):

It’s like, what is this tube?

(00:50:27):

Just like the concept.

(00:50:28):

Yeah.

(00:50:29):

They have these cool tubes.

(00:50:31):

Let’s talk about this very specific tube that’s inside it for eight hours.

(00:50:35):

And then we’d have weird homework on that.

(00:50:37):

And then we would get a ranking system 1 through 33 at the end of every week to

(00:50:40):

tell us how awesome it was.

(00:50:43):

And then the rest of the time was just hours.

(00:50:48):

And man, it was insane.

(00:50:51):

So the guy who was leading the course was a creep.

(00:50:54):

And no one could really articulate what was so creepy about him until a judge

(00:50:58):

finally did and sent him to jail.

(00:51:01):

He got sent to jail.

(00:51:04):

He didn’t get sent to jail.

(00:51:05):

I thought he did.

(00:51:05):

He got convicted.

(00:51:07):

I don’t know if there was jail time involved.

(00:51:11):

But yeah, there is a lawsuit out there for embezzling money.

(00:51:18):

I think he’s actually one of the few people that subscribes to this podcast.

(00:51:21):

I probably hope so.

(00:51:23):

Too much about it.

(00:51:24):

But it wasn’t.

(00:51:24):

Yeah, it wasn’t.

(00:51:26):

He was definitely a game show host type of personality, not a engineering professor.

(00:51:32):

Like a game show host for like, like, I don’t know what, what child in my bed or something.

(00:51:41):

I don’t know.

(00:51:41):

Yeah.

(00:51:42):

Love.

(00:51:42):

Well,

(00:51:51):

Where do you go from there?

(00:51:52):

I don’t know.

(00:51:53):

I don’t know where you go from there.

(00:51:54):

I mean, I don’t, I don’t, all the directions I can think of are directions I don’t want to go.

(00:51:58):

I remember we had a,

(00:52:01):

but like this,

(00:52:02):

it was such a weird,

(00:52:03):

like odd couple of like these 30 people because it was,

(00:52:07):

a lot of them was exactly what you’d expect.

(00:52:09):

Like super, like people that want to go into sales, right?

(00:52:13):

Like, yeah, but also like everyone was an engineer, I think.

(00:52:18):

Everyone was an engineer, so they’re all pretty smart.

(00:52:21):

Some have better social skills than others.

(00:52:23):

Some were very smart.

(00:52:24):

Some were very smart.

(00:52:27):

Some people had better social skills than others.

(00:52:29):

Chloe is a lawyer now.

(00:52:30):

There were some real smart folks in that class.

(00:52:33):

Chloe is one of the... She’s a lawyer for the ACLU.

(00:52:37):

She’s crushing.

(00:52:39):

Yeah.

(00:52:40):

And then but then there’s like then there’s the other parts of the guys that maybe

(00:52:43):

aren’t actually that smart,

(00:52:44):

but just huge douchebags.

(00:52:47):

And there’s definitely a lot of that going on.

(00:52:49):

And those are the people that like.

(00:52:51):

And also,

(00:52:51):

I want to say,

(00:52:52):

like,

(00:52:52):

we’re talking about it like we were given like hundreds of thousands of dollars.

(00:52:56):

We had like a per diem that was like maybe a few hundred.

(00:52:59):

But we were all just so young.

(00:53:00):

We were like, this is life changing.

(00:53:02):

Yes.

(00:53:03):

Yes.

(00:53:05):

We’re talking about it like it’s an NFL signing bonus, but it was really just like, oh my God.

(00:53:12):

We just had beer money.

(00:53:13):

That was all it was.

(00:53:16):

We had a hotel that was comped and we could eat food and then we had enough for beer after.

(00:53:21):

But it was still insane.

(00:53:23):

I remember one of our friends from Austin...

(00:53:26):

from the Austin branch he was the one he’s the only one in like a very serious

(00:53:30):

relationship I feel yeah he got married during that time yeah he was engaged when

(00:53:33):

he started it and then so he got married but I remember his goal every single trip

(00:53:37):

was to say he wanted to spend zero of his own dollars yes yes which like fits his

(00:53:41):

personality to be honest and he did like he never bought it like I’ve always been

(00:53:46):

like a souvenir shopper not him not that there’s like a lot of souvenirs in Norman,

(00:53:49):

Oklahoma that I wanted but

(00:53:51):

And it was just like, he literally would just try to limit all of his spending to just meals.

(00:53:56):

Exactly.

(00:53:57):

And that was it.

(00:53:57):

And just getting covered, yes.

(00:53:59):

Totally.

(00:54:00):

And he probably still had a great time.

(00:54:02):

I think at as good of a time as anyone else did.

(00:54:04):

Yeah, totally.

(00:54:08):

My,

(00:54:09):

well,

(00:54:10):

when you,

(00:54:11):

it’s funny,

(00:54:12):

because like,

(00:54:12):

you still like,

(00:54:13):

I still hear stories about things that happened,

(00:54:15):

like during that time that I didn’t know,

(00:54:17):

like closed door kind of stuff afterwards,

(00:54:19):

like,

(00:54:20):

Like you kind of knew certain like like this is the real world stuff right like the

(00:54:25):

new certain people like hooked up and you heard certain stories and like this guy

(00:54:29):

showed up late to class the next day but when he came back he had a coffee in hand

(00:54:34):

for one of the girls that sat by him who he never sat by before like there’s a lot

(00:54:40):

of that kind of stuff but like I remember I remember our mutual friend was telling

(00:54:45):

me something about like

(00:54:47):

It was his birthday and one of the people went up to him from our group and was

(00:54:51):

like,

(00:54:51):

hey,

(00:54:53):

what do you want for your birthday?

(00:54:53):

He goes, I don’t know, maybe a blowjob?

(00:54:55):

And she’s like, oh, okay.

(00:54:56):

It’s up by my roommate.

(00:54:57):

Stories like that, you hear that?

(00:54:59):

Gross.

(00:55:01):

Gross.

(00:55:02):

Yeah.

(00:55:06):

Gross.

(00:55:08):

Yeah, it was a weird time.

(00:55:09):

That’s what happens.

(00:55:09):

You put too many young 20-something people in a hotel room.

(00:55:14):

Yeah, it was

(00:55:15):

Yeah, there was no adult supervision.

(00:55:17):

The only adult there was our game show host friend who probably went to jail.

(00:55:22):

The other thing that I remember from that,

(00:55:23):

I’m just going through my notes,

(00:55:24):

is you started a fantasy football league without me during that time.

(00:55:28):

Without you?

(00:55:30):

Do you seriously not remember that?

(00:55:31):

I made a sneak out of that for years.

(00:55:33):

Here it is only 13 years later and it’s still like, I’m still bringing it up.

(00:55:38):

Yeah, no, clearly it’s affected you more than me.

(00:55:40):

I...

(00:55:45):

I found out about it after the fact and and then I made sure I brought it up every

(00:55:54):

single trip from then on out yeah no I don’t remember that at all but I’m very I

(00:55:59):

apologize I was so young yeah you you’ve learned a lot about how to treat people

(00:56:04):

since then exactly I did I also saw on your LinkedIn page that you still have that

(00:56:10):

you are bragging about being ranked number three do I have that on there

(00:56:14):

It’s still out there.

(00:56:15):

You’re ranked number three.

(00:56:16):

Remember who number two was?

(00:56:18):

You were number two.

(00:56:19):

Yours truly.

(00:56:20):

And number one doesn’t count.

(00:56:23):

He has a very big heart.

(00:56:26):

Probably also in jail.

(00:56:30):

Almost definitely is in jail.

(00:56:32):

Wow, that’s only hope for all of our sakes.

(00:56:36):

Okay, Kylie, what else?

(00:56:38):

Anything else we should talk about?

(00:56:39):

Who’s your favorite sports team?

(00:56:41):

This is another fascinating thing about it.

(00:56:42):

I can never figure out what teams you root for.

(00:56:44):

Yeah, right now I’m really into Wemby and the Spurs, of course.

(00:56:48):

I think Spurs are going to take it in five.

(00:56:51):

Take what?

(00:56:51):

The championship?

(00:56:52):

The finals.

(00:56:53):

The finals.

(00:56:53):

Okay.

(00:56:54):

Okay.

(00:56:54):

When being the Spurs?

(00:56:55):

Have you been, was this a new, like the NBA, is that a new?

(00:56:59):

Yeah.

(00:57:00):

Just because Central Texas is going so crazy for the Spurs and the Spurs are just

(00:57:03):

so unproblematic and good.

(00:57:05):

And like the people of San Antonio and Central Texas are like just my favorites.

(00:57:10):

So yeah, I’m all in.

(00:57:11):

I’m all in right now.

(00:57:14):

When the season comes back around, I’ll be like fully on board for the Chiefs again.

(00:57:18):

I mean, I’m never not on board for the Chiefs.

(00:57:20):

Because your Chiefs, apparently Spurs now, that’s a new app.

(00:57:24):

Detroit Tigers, right?

(00:57:25):

Aren’t you a Tigers baseball fan?

(00:57:27):

Yeah, but I’m also a big Royals fan.

(00:57:29):

But they’re in different leagues, so that’s okay.

(00:57:31):

Okay.

(00:57:32):

Yeah.

(00:57:33):

And then obviously KU.

(00:57:35):

Kansas always.

(00:57:36):

Are they doing that stuff currently?

(00:57:39):

Yeah, they’re in the playoffs for baseball.

(00:57:42):

They could be coming to Omaha.

(00:57:43):

Yeah.

(00:57:45):

Nebraska just lost last night so I was at a bar and watched But doesn’t everyone

(00:57:50):

have to come through Omaha that’s like the only thing you guys have is the College

(00:57:53):

World Series Yeah that’s no we have Warren Buffett Oh you have a walking bridge too

(00:57:58):

and a zoo Yeah yeah and a zoo and a bridge But no Warren Buffett for the moment

(00:58:04):

being I mean he’s already stepped down so now he’s really just a mascot he’s not

(00:58:09):

even running Berkshire Hathaway anymore but you know

(00:58:12):

You know He’s still ours He still shows up on all the Forbes lists Yeah But like

(00:58:18):

you went to Kansas when it was the historically worst football team ever in the

(00:58:22):

history of ever,

(00:58:23):

right?

(00:58:25):

Um I feel like yes I think you were at KU when they were like 0-12 for like 3 years

(00:58:32):

in a row or something crazy Yeah Because it was after Mangino left I don’t think we

(00:58:36):

lost right away when Mangino left Um

(00:58:43):

But then, yeah, we were certainly not on an uphill trajectory.

(00:58:47):

Were people still, like, showing up?

(00:58:48):

Did you go to KU football games or just all basketball all the time?

(00:58:51):

No, we went to football games.

(00:58:54):

Were they, like, what was the vibe?

(00:58:56):

Vibes were high.

(00:58:57):

Vibes are always high.

(00:58:59):

Okay, so you still enjoyed it.

(00:59:00):

It was just like, but you just, were you there for the football?

(00:59:02):

Do people actually, like, were they hopeful, optimistic?

(00:59:05):

Yeah, of course.

(00:59:07):

Always.

(00:59:07):

That’s what I’m saying.

(00:59:08):

Vibes are high, man.

(00:59:10):

Vibes are big.

(00:59:12):

You could be a Husker fan with that kind of attitude.

(00:59:16):

Yeah, but I have too much self-respect.

(00:59:20):

Hey, water’s warm.

(00:59:21):

You can join whenever you want.

(00:59:24):

Yeah.

(00:59:26):

Anything else, Kylie?

(00:59:28):

I don’t think so.

(00:59:28):

Any other questions about what makes me so interesting?

(00:59:31):

I don’t know.

(00:59:32):

I don’t even know if we covered it.

(00:59:34):

I don’t know if we’ve convinced my three viewers yet that you’re worth this time

(00:59:38):

while they’re on the treadmill.

(00:59:41):

But one thing I’ve learned about just listening to podcasts is that really people

(00:59:46):

have,

(00:59:48):

they have very low expectations out of a lot of their podcasts.

(00:59:50):

I listened to my interview, who was it?

(00:59:55):

Kristen Wiig.

(00:59:58):

It was the worst interview I think I’ve ever heard in my life.

(01:00:00):

This is easily a better interview than that.

(01:00:02):

Kristen Wiig.

(01:00:03):

Oh, it’s awful.

(01:00:04):

You should listen to it.

(01:00:06):

It’s awful.

(01:00:06):

It’s awful.

(01:00:07):

it’s a total waste of time you should you should interesting that’s like actually

(01:00:11):

kind of fascinating it is like that was yeah because those two people are like in

(01:00:17):

showbiz let’s say their whole thing like I love Conan and I think that he’s the

(01:00:21):

kind of guy that like really wants his guests to come across well you know yeah you

(01:00:26):

can just see him like just wheels turning trying to help her and he would say stuff

(01:00:31):

like uh like Kristen Wiig would give responses like

(01:00:35):

Yeah, some people just think I’m, you know, not very interesting.

(01:00:38):

And you’d be like, oh, really?

(01:00:41):

It’s like going to be like, what?

(01:00:42):

Yeah, no.

(01:00:43):

I’ve actually heard interviews of him talking about how practiced he or how he like

(01:00:48):

made it a skill for himself to be a good host and interviewer.

(01:00:52):

So he like, yeah, he takes it very seriously.

(01:00:55):

And especially because he kind of had to like on his show,

(01:00:58):

especially early on,

(01:00:59):

he was interviewing like C and D list celebrities or like kids who were like,

(01:01:04):

had like

(01:01:05):

By C.S.

(01:01:05):

Beaty

(01:01:22):

He always has this fake,

(01:01:23):

I don’t think it’s most of the time fake,

(01:01:25):

I think summertime it has to be,

(01:01:26):

but it’s like,

(01:01:26):

oh yeah,

(01:01:27):

ketchup is great,

(01:01:28):

yeah.

(01:01:31):

You can see with Kristen Wiig that one,

(01:01:32):

which to your point,

(01:01:34):

I thought it would be great just knowing that she’s funny.

(01:01:37):

And it was

(01:01:40):

My heart just broke for this man because I’ve never been in that exact situation.

(01:01:44):

I’m really going through it, Conan.

(01:01:45):

I’ve been in a lot of terrible sales calls where you could tell it’s just not working.

(01:01:50):

But man, it was rough.

(01:01:51):

Maybe you should rethink what you’re doing.

(01:01:53):

Yeah.

(01:01:55):

But that being said, I’ll take Kristen Wiig on my podcast anytime.

(01:01:58):

Yeah.

(01:01:58):

Good idea.

(01:01:59):

I bet she’s open to it.

(01:02:01):

Now that she knows that you hate her.

(01:02:05):

I think she’s an awful podcast interviewer.

(01:02:08):

If she wasn’t eager before, she’s eager now.

(01:02:13):

That’s the trick.

(01:02:14):

That’s the secret sauce.

(01:02:16):

Alright, Kylie.

(01:02:18):

You’ll get there.

(01:02:19):

Thank you.

(01:02:22):

My pleasure.

(01:02:23):

There’s no close.

(01:02:24):

I don’t know how we’re supposed to do this.

(01:02:27):

The last podcast we closed was...

(01:02:30):

My wife said a text saying, it’s raining outside and Ben’s trunk is open.

(01:02:34):

Ben was my guest.

(01:02:35):

So we said, we better get outside and close the trunk.

(01:02:38):

Time to close up shop.

(01:02:39):

Yeah.

(01:02:40):

Yeah.

(01:02:40):

Okay.

(01:02:41):

Well, it’s been a slice.

(01:02:42):

Always a pleasure, Christopher Beaty.

(01:02:44):

Thank you.

(01:02:46):

Interesting People is produced by Chris Beaty in his basement.

(01:02:50):

Thank you to Kylie Sheehy for always being a thrill to talk to,

(01:02:53):

even when it’s just to make fun of me.

(01:02:55):

Be sure to check out her kick-ass non-profit she’s a part of, Mobile Loaves and Fishes.

(01:03:01):

Its web address looks a lot like MILF.org, but it’s not that one.

(01:03:04):

It’s MLF.org.

(01:03:06):

MILF.org is something else.

(01:03:09):

Signing off from the greatest city on earth,

(01:03:11):

some might even say better than Austin,

(01:03:12):

Texas,

(01:03:14):

Omaha,

(01:03:14):

Nebraska.

Today’s guest is retired journalist,

(00:00:33):

Wahoo,

(00:00:34):

Nebraska historian,

(00:00:36):

and not my real uncle,

(00:00:37):

Uncle Bob Copperstone.

(00:00:41):

All right, you ready for this?

(00:00:43):

Ready as I’ll ever be.

(00:00:45):

Okay, so the idea behind this podcast is to convince people that they’re interesting.

(00:00:50):

Do you need to be convinced that you’re interesting?

(00:00:52):

I feel like you probably already know that.

(00:00:54):

What makes you interesting?

(00:00:56):

Oh, hell, I earned it.

(00:00:59):

How’d you earn it?

(00:01:01):

By being interesting for so long.

(00:01:03):

Okay.

(00:01:04):

When did you first start being interesting?

(00:01:06):

I never stopped.

(00:01:08):

You were born that way?

(00:01:09):

I was born that way.

(00:01:10):

All right.

(00:01:11):

So you’re born in Wahoo, right?

(00:01:13):

Isn’t everybody?

(00:01:14):

Oh, I guess I was wrong.

(00:01:15):

Everybody that matters, huh?

(00:01:16):

That’s true.

(00:01:18):

All right.

(00:01:18):

So here’s the list.

(00:01:19):

I made a list of things that I knew about you.

(00:01:20):

So you’re born in Wahoo.

(00:01:22):

You helped run the family-owned Wigwam Cafe as a kid.

(00:01:26):

At some point, you moved to California, and you became a newspaper reporter.

(00:01:31):

You’re married at some point, I think.

(00:01:33):

You don’t really talk about it to me.

(00:01:34):

And then at some point you drove a truck cross-country picking up antiques.

(00:01:38):

You told me that once.

(00:01:40):

And then you moved back to Wahoo to retire.

(00:01:42):

Was that about right?

(00:01:43):

That’s about right.

(00:01:44):

Okay.

(00:01:44):

Why did you decide to become a reporter then?

(00:01:48):

Ever since I was in high school, I was a bad student.

(00:01:54):

Mediocre Ds and Cs.

(00:01:59):

And I thought,

(00:01:59):

well,

(00:02:00):

at one of the classes,

(00:02:03):

a civics class,

(00:02:05):

the teacher asked us what we want to do when we get elderly.

(00:02:15):

And I thought, well, I want to be a reporter.

(00:02:20):

Well, that goes back quite a way.

(00:02:23):

Did you know any reporters?

(00:02:24):

Why did you tell her you wanted to be one?

(00:02:28):

Well, wasn’t Clark Kent a reporter?

(00:02:33):

So you saw a little Superman in yourself?

(00:02:35):

Probably.

(00:02:38):

At least a close friend.

(00:02:42):

Anyhow,

(00:02:45):

I started,

(00:02:47):

when I went to California,

(00:02:49):

or before I went to California,

(00:02:52):

I worked at the Bellevue Press.

(00:02:55):

right after graduation and I had that in front of me and I worked in a print shop,

(00:03:05):

a newspaper print shop here in Wahoo and in Bellevue.

(00:03:12):

And in Bellevue they let me work,

(00:03:15):

they let me interview a guy who lived in a trailer court and had a thousand

(00:03:23):

Tropical Fish in it and then their name was Trout.

(00:03:27):

And so I made a little story out of that and they printed it on the front page.

(00:03:32):

Since I was working on the press,

(00:03:36):

the big cylinder press that printed the paper,

(00:03:41):

I was able to print my own first,

(00:03:43):

my first byline.

(00:03:47):

I both wrote it and printed it.

(00:03:52):

And I still have that.

(00:03:54):

Anyhow,

(00:03:54):

I started with the newspapers there,

(00:03:56):

then I went to California after a year in Bellevue.

(00:04:00):

I had gotten a Triumph TR3 sports car, an English sports car, and I drove that to California.

(00:04:12):

I mailed the passenger seat ahead of time and put all my belongings on that spot.

(00:04:25):

I drove to California.

(00:04:27):

Got a job at a print shop there.

(00:04:30):

While I was looking for work, I didn’t know how to type.

(00:04:38):

And I asked the managing editor of the paper that I wanted to work at.

(00:04:43):

He says, fill this out.

(00:04:44):

And I said, can I use, can I write?

(00:04:48):

Can I fill it out with a written one?

(00:04:51):

And he says, yeah.

(00:04:53):

But, of course, I didn’t get that job.

(00:04:57):

What made you want to go to California?

(00:04:59):

Why didn’t you just get a job closer to Nebraska?

(00:05:02):

Well,

(00:05:02):

I did work as a printer’s devil at the Wahoo newspaper in the print shop when I was

(00:05:08):

still in high school.

(00:05:12):

When I worked in Bellevue, I lived in a flop house on 13th Street in Omaha.

(00:05:20):

And I had my time off tier 3 then.

(00:05:22):

And I spent one winter in Omaha driving through that little sports car,

(00:05:29):

trying to drive that through the snow.

(00:05:31):

This ain’t for me.

(00:05:34):

California calls.

(00:05:35):

Took off between snowstorms.

(00:05:38):

I drove as far south as I could to get out of that blizzard and carried it all the

(00:05:44):

way to California.

(00:05:46):

In your sports car?

(00:05:48):

Yeah.

(00:05:49):

Did you have a job then or you just decided to get out of the winter?

(00:05:52):

I stayed with my aunt and uncle.

(00:05:53):

They lived there since the 40s and that was my shelter.

(00:05:59):

Did you get a job after you moved or did you have a job lined up already?

(00:06:02):

No, I went job searching.

(00:06:05):

I ended up at a print shop in San Gabriel that printed wedding invitations and so

(00:06:12):

forth and that carried me through for about a year.

(00:06:18):

And I decided to, I wasn’t making it at that print shop.

(00:06:23):

I wasn’t making enough money.

(00:06:25):

So I quit there and decided, my cousins were fuller brushmen.

(00:06:37):

And I became a fuller brushman.

(00:06:41):

Of the door-to-door salesman?

(00:06:43):

Selling brushes?

(00:06:45):

Selling brushes.

(00:06:47):

Were you good at it?

(00:06:49):

Well, I went from door to door.

(00:06:54):

I didn’t, I was too shy to meet people.

(00:06:58):

I’d go door to door.

(00:06:59):

I’d say, nobody home, I hope, I hope.

(00:07:02):

You’d mutter that to yourself?

(00:07:02):

I’d mutter that and then plow it on through.

(00:07:05):

And if I got somebody’s attention,

(00:07:07):

I just held them there with,

(00:07:09):

practically grabbed them by the collar and told them to listen to what I have to

(00:07:12):

say.

(00:07:14):

And I didn’t do well at all.

(00:07:18):

I drove back to Wahoo.

(00:07:20):

What was your pitch to sell fuller brushes?

(00:07:24):

They last for a good long time.

(00:07:27):

Did they?

(00:07:28):

Whatever they’re looking at, that’ll last for a good long time.

(00:07:32):

Somehow I thought that would be magic, but it didn’t work.

(00:07:39):

It’s, uh...

(00:07:42):

So I went back to Wahoo.

(00:07:43):

So you went to, you’re a fuller brush salesman in California, you went back to Wahoo after that?

(00:07:47):

Mm-hmm.

(00:07:48):

Okay.

(00:07:48):

Yeah, I was kind of discouraged.

(00:07:50):

Oh, I was going to go to school.

(00:07:51):

Okay.

(00:07:52):

And I did.

(00:07:53):

Okay.

(00:07:53):

I went to the University of Nebraska.

(00:07:56):

Back to Lincoln, went to school.

(00:07:59):

Oh, when I came back from California, oh, I took, taking classes by mail.

(00:08:06):

From California?

(00:08:08):

No, from Wahoo.

(00:08:09):

Did you ever actually go to class in Lincoln?

(00:08:12):

Or was it all by mail?

(00:08:14):

Yeah, I did.

(00:08:14):

I took French class about a semester.

(00:08:18):

There was a print shop course.

(00:08:21):

Okay.

(00:08:24):

It was in the basement of one of the buildings there.

(00:08:27):

And I really took to the print shop work, type of work.

(00:08:33):

I did that real well.

(00:08:36):

So I thought well I’ll quit my job here but my grades were falling real bad at the university.

(00:08:44):

That’s when I went to Bellevue.

(00:08:47):

I was doing real well at the print shop there at the university that I thought I’d

(00:08:51):

get a job doing the same thing and get paid for it.

(00:08:56):

So I worked for the Bellevue Press for about a year and decided I’d go back to

(00:09:04):

California and look for a job.

(00:09:07):

All right.

(00:09:08):

So you grew up in Wahoo.

(00:09:09):

You went to California, became a fuller brush salesman, came back.

(00:09:14):

Went to school,

(00:09:18):

got a job,

(00:09:19):

took a bunch of classes and got a job in Bellevue,

(00:09:21):

and then you decided to go back to California in order to get a reporting job,

(00:09:26):

a newspaper job.

(00:09:28):

And I did.

(00:09:28):

I told the editor there, I’ll work for a dollar an hour.

(00:09:32):

Yeah.

(00:09:33):

And they hired me and liked it.

(00:09:37):

As a reporter?

(00:09:39):

As a reporter, yeah.

(00:09:40):

I had my own paper, a little weekly paper.

(00:09:44):

I went to a city council meeting, my first one.

(00:09:48):

That was part of the job.

(00:09:50):

You keep track of what the city is doing.

(00:09:52):

And Covina is a town of about $50,000, something like that.

(00:09:54):

That’s small in Los Angeles County.

(00:10:12):

I went there and listened to the little discussions.

(00:10:17):

Went back the next day.

(00:10:19):

Wednesday was press day.

(00:10:22):

And I sat at my desk and Jim, the managing editor, he said, well, Bob, let’s have your story.

(00:10:32):

I sat there and I sat there.

(00:10:34):

Dune came and went.

(00:10:38):

Jim finally says, Bob, where’s your story?

(00:10:42):

I said, Jim, I don’t know what happened.

(00:10:48):

I thought, well, that’s the end of Bob.

(00:10:51):

Jim laughed.

(00:10:52):

Didn’t know what happened with your story?

(00:10:54):

No, I didn’t know what happened so I could write about it.

(00:10:57):

I didn’t know how to write it.

(00:10:58):

Nothing happened of note at the city council meeting.

(00:11:01):

Apparently.

(00:11:04):

I knew what happened.

(00:11:05):

I didn’t know how to put it to words.

(00:11:08):

Jim kind of chuckled.

(00:11:11):

And he got on the phone to the city administrator and said, hey, Joe, what happened last night?

(00:11:20):

And Jim wrote the story for me.

(00:11:22):

Did he give you credit?

(00:11:24):

Did he say it was written by you?

(00:11:25):

No, no, no.

(00:11:26):

Okay.

(00:11:28):

But that was the last time Jim had to write my story.

(00:11:34):

I went to the next one.

(00:11:35):

I went to the library where there were three papers covering it.

(00:11:43):

And I read what they wrote and got this hang of it and was able to write my own

(00:11:51):

stories after that.

(00:11:53):

So you went and you read what other people wrote about the thing that you were

(00:11:57):

supposed to cover?

(00:11:58):

Yes, I read Jim’s story and Farewell is the House Done and I learned from that.

(00:12:07):

All the time learning how to type.

(00:12:09):

Yeah.

(00:12:10):

But it worked.

(00:12:11):

On a manual typewriter?

(00:12:12):

What was that process?

(00:12:14):

You had a manual typewriter and then you... You turn the copy into the back shop.

(00:12:20):

They read it.

(00:12:22):

They put it on a line of type.

(00:12:24):

Cast the lead type.

(00:12:29):

And put that lead type on a...

(00:12:33):

Printing Press and Print Your Paper.

(00:12:37):

Is it just one at a time, every letter at a time, or how do they cast it?

(00:12:42):

No, no, no.

(00:12:44):

They read my copy and type it out on the linotype.

(00:12:49):

There’s a separate machine that you type it into?

(00:12:51):

No, the linotype does.

(00:12:53):

Yeah, yeah.

(00:12:54):

A different person does?

(00:12:55):

Yeah.

(00:12:55):

Okay.

(00:12:57):

I turn in the paper to the back shop.

(00:12:59):

I turn in my paper to the back shop.

(00:13:03):

and story to the back shop and they put it down to type and print it.

(00:13:08):

So a linotype machine,

(00:13:09):

that was what you learned how to use and what you did in Bellevue or is that

(00:13:13):

something else?

(00:13:13):

No, my work stopped there.

(00:13:18):

The reporters don’t do the linotype.

(00:13:22):

But you did when you were in Bellevue, so you did your own?

(00:13:25):

No, I typed my own.

(00:13:27):

Okay.

(00:13:27):

No, I typed

(00:13:29):

When you were a typesetter, didn’t you say you did that before too?

(00:13:32):

Before it?

(00:13:34):

Oh, I see what you’re getting at.

(00:13:36):

No, I never did that.

(00:13:37):

I never had to work the back shot.

(00:13:39):

I never had to print the paper myself as a reporter.

(00:13:44):

Okay.

(00:13:46):

Well,

(00:13:47):

it gets a little more complicated because I ran a Ludlow,

(00:13:50):

which Ludlow Press,

(00:13:53):

Ludlow typesetter,

(00:13:55):

which printed the fancy type.

(00:13:59):

Okay.

(00:13:59):

A larger type that wouldn’t fit on a line of type.

(00:14:06):

So what was your next big story?

(00:14:07):

So were you still covering city council meetings after that?

(00:14:10):

Yeah, you do everything that you expect a little weekly paper to use, yeah.

(00:14:18):

And sometimes it’s interesting, sometimes it’s not.

(00:14:24):

How long ago were you at that newspaper?

(00:14:30):

Actually,

(00:14:31):

the Monrovia Daily News,

(00:14:34):

or Monrovia was another paper in that San Gabriel Valley area,

(00:14:40):

and they hired me as a reporter after that,

(00:14:47):

the one that I had to learn on.

(00:14:51):

And from there, that was a small daily report.

(00:14:59):

And eventually the San Gibe Valley Daily Tribune,

(00:15:04):

which was nearing 100,000 circulation daily,

(00:15:08):

that was a big paper.

(00:15:11):

And they lifted me out of Monrovia and the next step up was the Tribune.

(00:15:20):

And I rose to the assistant city editor of that paper before I retired.

(00:15:32):

And that was the last paper you were at?

(00:15:33):

Yeah.

(00:15:34):

Okay.

(00:15:35):

So what was your duties like as the assistant city editor?

(00:15:42):

They had a staff of about 20.

(00:15:45):

And five photographers.

(00:15:50):

And I was responsible for looking first at the copy that came through those

(00:15:56):

reporters and pass it on to the next editor.

(00:16:02):

Do you have any stories you remember that you had

(00:16:07):

Were some of your favorites?

(00:16:08):

Oh, excuse me, yes.

(00:16:10):

I worked as a reporter for about five years.

(00:16:14):

Then I was an editor.

(00:16:16):

Yeah, I had some good stories when I was a reporter.

(00:16:23):

I had a humorous vein sometimes.

(00:16:29):

And I had my own political...

(00:16:35):

Political writer, editor, writer for a couple of years.

(00:16:41):

Any stick out?

(00:16:42):

What was one that you remember that you thought was good?

(00:16:45):

I was supposed to go to the hotel where Bobby Kennedy was murdered.

(00:16:50):

I was supposed to go to that lay in Los Angeles when I was editor of the political

(00:16:57):

editor,

(00:16:58):

but I couldn’t make it and missed it,

(00:17:00):

so I missed it.

(00:17:04):

Writing an obituary for that.

(00:17:07):

Really?

(00:17:08):

Do you remember why you missed it?

(00:17:11):

I didn’t want to go.

(00:17:12):

Okay.

(00:17:14):

I didn’t want to drive to Los Angeles.

(00:17:16):

So you found an excuse to get out of it, huh?

(00:17:18):

Get out of it.

(00:17:20):

Foolish man.

(00:17:22):

So what made you want to go back to Oahu?

(00:17:24):

Why didn’t you stay in California?

(00:17:25):

My mother was not well, and I was about ready to retire.

(00:17:32):

And you’ve been living in Oahu ever since then?

(00:17:40):

Yeah.

(00:17:45):

California never was home to me.

(00:17:48):

Now my sister Rochelle

(00:17:51):

And my little sister Janie both moved to California too.

(00:17:58):

Janie died pretty much early in life, bless her heart.

(00:18:04):

But Rochelle is still there to this day and that’s home to her.

(00:18:09):

She got married and raised a family.

(00:18:16):

I got married and got a divorce.

(00:18:19):

And so I never set any roots at that point.

(00:18:24):

I should probably clarify you’re not actually my uncle.

(00:18:27):

So whose uncle are you?

(00:18:28):

Everybody calls you Uncle Bob.

(00:18:30):

Rochelle and Janie, my sisters.

(00:18:34):

My niece and my two nieces, Kathy and Tina, are Janie’s children.

(00:18:46):

Actually, to my neighbors, I’m Uncle Bob.

(00:18:48):

Yeah?

(00:18:50):

Everybody, even your neighbors call you Uncle Bob?

(00:18:53):

Some do, yeah.

(00:18:54):

Yeah?

(00:18:56):

Yep.

(00:18:57):

Kind of trips off the tongue.

(00:18:58):

Yeah?

(00:18:59):

Yeah.

(00:19:00):

And I’m so damn lovable.

(00:19:02):

Yeah.

(00:19:03):

You might as well be everyone’s uncle.

(00:19:05):

That’s true.

(00:19:06):

Why not?

(00:19:06):

It doesn’t cost anything.

(00:19:07):

Yeah.

(00:19:08):

My kids are always,

(00:19:10):

they call you Uncle Bob and they try to figure out how you’re related to them too.

(00:19:13):

Oh, is that right?

(00:19:14):

Yes, it hurts.

(00:19:16):

Yeah, that could be kind of, that could be kind of

(00:19:22):

So why do you why do you write so much about the wigwam cafe and your childhood

(00:19:27):

what is It’s for some reason I can’t remember what I had for breakfast But I can

(00:19:41):

remember when I was five years old.

(00:19:43):

I was first day in kindergarten And it just comes to be natural.

(00:19:48):

Yeah

(00:19:48):

It’s just,

(00:19:50):

I mean,

(00:19:51):

down to the,

(00:19:52):

what I was smelling when I first walked outdoors kind of remembrance.

(00:20:00):

It just comes back.

(00:20:03):

And if I’m not exactly on cue, I’m absolutely correct.

(00:20:09):

There’s nobody who’s gonna correct me.

(00:20:15):

I can be Superman’s uncle

(00:20:18):

Nobody would doubt it.

(00:20:20):

Nobody would doubt if you’re Superman’s uncle?

(00:20:22):

That’s true.

(00:20:23):

I won’t challenge you on it.

(00:20:28):

You could bring up figures and dates, but it wouldn’t help me.

(00:20:34):

How much has Wahoo changed since those times?

(00:20:36):

Has it changed a lot or not by much?

(00:20:40):

Just about what you’d expect.

(00:20:43):

Missing some of the good stuff, God knows.

(00:20:48):

But it weren’t all that good.

(00:20:54):

Everybody lives a life that looks better from a distance.

(00:21:00):

Yeah.

(00:21:01):

I’m one of them.

(00:21:03):

Your life looks better from a distance?

(00:21:06):

It’s, well, I’m different from what I was, so so am I.

(00:21:19):

So you would say Wahoo’s changed a little bit,

(00:21:21):

but at the end of the day,

(00:21:23):

it’s still got a lot of the same things or a lot different?

(00:21:26):

I mean,

(00:21:27):

you chose to retire and live here the rest of your life,

(00:21:29):

even after seeing the glamour of Hollywood and California.

(00:21:35):

Well,

(00:21:35):

I tell you,

(00:21:36):

I miss more than that,

(00:21:39):

because I can entertain myself just about anywhere,

(00:21:42):

but more than that,

(00:21:45):

I miss the people.

(00:21:46):

Of Wahoo?

(00:21:48):

Yeah.

(00:21:50):

What do you like about the people of Wahoo?

(00:21:57):

Not much.

(00:21:59):

You want to change your answer then?

(00:22:01):

I wonder about that.

(00:22:05):

Actually, life is the further away from it, the better and the milder it becomes.

(00:22:12):

Well, you have anything else you want to... We’ve been going for about a half hour.

(00:22:15):

That’s pretty good.

(00:22:16):

Anything else you feel like... Any wisdom you want to impart to the world?

(00:22:21):

Any thoughts about... Oh, God, don’t follow me.

(00:22:23):

Don’t follow you?

(00:22:28):

You can do better.

(00:22:29):

No, I... Wahoo people have a sense of humor.

(00:22:37):

And I was born with it and I kept it.

(00:22:41):

I think I owe it to a lot of the people I grew up with who treated me mildly and decently.

(00:22:48):

Bless their hearts.

(00:22:59):

I hope to have a worthwhile

(00:23:10):

lifetime.

(00:23:13):

Sometimes when I wasn’t as human as I thought I should be, I forgive myself.

(00:23:24):

I did the best I could.

(00:23:25):

We all do the best we can.

(00:23:28):

And what they do in Wahoo is pretty damn good.

(00:23:34):

But the damn weather.

(00:23:37):

Curse that weather.

(00:23:41):

California’s got them beat on that, huh?

(00:23:43):

Oh my gosh.

(00:23:47):

I wonder what the heck I’m doing here sometimes when the snow flies.

(00:23:55):

I always did.

(00:23:56):

Now my dad was the, I don’t know why I didn’t inherit more of his.

(00:24:06):

He was born to be an Eskimo and missed his calling.

(00:24:11):

I was on the back end.

(00:24:15):

I was a child at the time.

(00:24:17):

I was riding in the back end of his 1947 Harley Davidson Hill Climber motorcycle.

(00:24:30):

And it didn’t even have a,

(00:24:31):

it had a little small shield,

(00:24:34):

windshield on the driver’s benefit up front.

(00:24:40):

But his arms were stretched out, bare arms, I might add.

(00:24:46):

It was wintertime.

(00:24:48):

Bare arms.

(00:24:49):

And I said, Dad, I’m freezing back here.

(00:24:55):

Aren’t you cold?

(00:24:56):

He said, no, no, no, I’m not cold.

(00:24:59):

Your arms are out there in the wind.

(00:25:03):

No, no, feel them.

(00:25:05):

Warm as toast.

(00:25:07):

In the wind.

(00:25:08):

In the wintertime.

(00:25:10):

Bless his heart.

(00:25:12):

So you didn’t inherit that from him?

(00:25:16):

I wish I had inherited his Harley.

(00:25:19):

You wish you inherited his Harley?

(00:25:20):

Yeah, I wish I had.

(00:25:22):

Later he had a real knucklehead full size.

(00:25:28):

Boy oh that the hill climber though that I was on the back of that’s a little

(00:25:37):

leather pad leather stuffed pad on that fender and that was designed for the hill

(00:25:45):

climber driver rider driver I guess to sit his butt back there and put the weight

(00:25:53):

on the

(00:25:56):

Powered Rear Wheel.

(00:25:59):

Well, I sat on that.

(00:26:00):

I was about 10 or 11, God knows.

(00:26:03):

And we were going to a hill climber at Morse Bluff.

(00:26:10):

This was in about 1949, I guess.

(00:26:13):

And he had to stop every mile or so on the bumpy country road

(00:26:23):

So my kidneys would stop aching.

(00:26:27):

I was bawling back there.

(00:26:30):

And we never could make a straight line to it because it wasn’t hell on wheels.

(00:26:38):

There wasn’t much of a suspension on it?

(00:26:41):

It was a hard tail.

(00:26:46):

None of that sissy stuff for us.

(00:26:48):

God knows I wanted it.

(00:26:55):

Didn’t you say he made like a special pad just for you to sit on on that bike?

(00:26:59):

No, that’s what that hill climber did.

(00:27:03):

That was its purpose.

(00:27:06):

A hill climber.

(00:27:07):

They had contests at Morse Bluff in this case.

(00:27:12):

And they’d all try to get up to the top of the hill without falling on their tail.

(00:27:21):

It was a contest.

(00:27:23):

I thought you told a story once that your dad had a special seat that you sat on

(00:27:27):

the back of his seat.

(00:27:29):

No, that was the seat I was talking about.

(00:27:31):

That was not meant for passengers, but it was designed for it.

(00:27:42):

Actually, Dad had bought that hillclamber from my cousin, my elder cousin,

(00:27:53):

He dumped it and never got back on it.

(00:27:58):

They were designed to be fallen upon and served a purpose well.

(00:28:06):

Designed to be fallen on?

(00:28:10):

To be dumped.

(00:28:11):

Oh, to be dumped.

(00:28:13):

No, the purpose of the hill climb was to stay on without getting dumped.

(00:28:18):

If you do, you get back on.

(00:28:20):

Okay.

(00:28:22):

So they’re meant to take a lot of abuse then?

(00:28:25):

Yeah, they were abusive, that’s a fact.

(00:28:30):

When’s the last time you were on a motorcycle?

(00:28:33):

I bought one of my own.

(00:28:34):

I bought a Suzuki when I was in California.

(00:28:38):

We rode that all over California.

(00:28:41):

I loved it.

(00:28:43):

Well, any parting thoughts or wisdom or anything else?

(00:28:48):

Oh, Lordy.

(00:28:55):

Yeah, brother, can you spare a dime?

(00:28:57):

A dime won’t get you much anymore.

(00:29:01):

Hey, baby, you might give it what you can.

(00:29:04):

You need to adjust your phrases for inflation there.

(00:29:08):

Brother, can you spare a 10-spot?

(00:29:10):

I’ll spare you a dime, that’s easy.

(00:29:13):

No, that’s not easy, I don’t have one.

(00:29:15):

You could have found something in my center console in my car over lunch.

(00:29:22):

I said I could have given you a whole bunch of dimes out of the center console of

(00:29:25):

my car when we were getting lunch earlier.

(00:29:30):

What would you do with the dime if I gave you one?

(00:29:34):

Probably tighten a screw.

(00:29:39):

Maybe I ought to get you a screwdriver.

(00:29:41):

No, no, no, this will work fine.

(00:29:44):

Haven’t you ever done that?

(00:29:45):

I mean, I’m...

(00:29:48):

I’m sure I have at some point in my life.

(00:29:50):

No, you can’t use a credit card either.

(00:29:54):

I tried that once and it broke.

(00:29:55):

The credit card broke?

(00:29:56):

Yeah.

(00:29:57):

Oh, no.

(00:29:58):

What kind of screws do you need?

(00:30:00):

How many screws do you need tightened?

(00:30:04):

Counting my brain?

(00:30:05):

Yeah, it seems like you got a few screws loose.

(00:30:07):

I think your screw is loose.

(00:30:12):

I’m good.

(00:30:13):

All right, let’s wrap this up.

(00:30:15):

Thanks, Bob.

(00:30:15):

I don’t know how to wrap up an interview, but you were the first one.

(00:30:19):

How’d it go?

(00:30:20):

Well, listen, I wish I could do better, but I was glad to try.

(00:30:26):

You did great.

(00:30:30):

All right, I’m going to turn this thing off.

(00:30:34):

Interesting People is produced by Chris Beaty in his basement.

(00:30:39):

And today’s episode was recorded in Uncle Bob’s recliner in his Wahoo, Nebraska living room.

(00:30:45):

If you want to hear more of Uncle Bob’s stories,

(00:30:48):

check out the As Told by Uncle Bob podcast episodes from the As Told by C.S.

(00:30:53):

Beaty podcast universe.

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Please subscribe and tell all your friends about my interesting friends.

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And if you have interesting friends, well, let me know so I can talk to them.

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Signing off from the greatest city on earth, Omaha, Nebraska.

Today’s guest is the guy who designed my book,

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was in a band with me,

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and sold me this podcast gear.

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Author and artist, Ben Looters.

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I don’t.

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I bought this stuff from you and it took us two hours to do it and we didn’t make

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it any farther.

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And that was the story of the worst podcast purchase I’ve ever made.

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Is this on?

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Are you recording right now?

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I am.

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I mean, this may not make it to the end.

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I got this magic audacity feature where for the next seven hours you can

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individually cut certain things and change it and delete it.

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It takes a really long time and it doesn’t turn out very well, but it’s awesome.

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Oh man, I want to make sure I’m not like way over here like Bob.

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Well, just like, should we put you in a rocking chair?

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Because that’s how he did it.

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Oh dude, that does sound good.

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Yeah, he loved it.

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When was the time you felt like a loser?

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I didn’t

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But I got a lot of matted fur cut out of my dog for that.

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Well, hey, any time, bro.

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Is that what it takes?

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That’s the kind of show this is, just so you know.

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It’s also the show that I’m getting really hot in this sweatshirt, so I’m going to take it off.

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Oh, man.

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I feel like this is why it needs to be a video podcast.

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It is.

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Every five minutes, Chris takes off another piece of clothing.

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I reveal another tattoo.

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Is that the only tattoo you... No, I got many.

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You actually?

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Yeah, you want me to do a naked podcast?

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Is this going to be like the strip poker version of podcasts?

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The thing about you,

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Chris,

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is like,

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I think I know you really well,

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but I don’t know you well enough to know sometimes when you’re joking and when

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you’re not.

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I never tell a lie.

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That’s true.

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I’m usually very odd.

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I usually just try to frame things that makes you wonder if I’m telling the truth.

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I think you say things that I hope you’re lying.

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Yeah, they’re almost always true.

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Yes, I have additional tattoos.

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Would you like to see them?

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Here’s one.

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Oh, sure.

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Here’s this one.

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You should recognize this one.

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Oh, that’s beautiful.

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That’s the asterisk that I designed on the cover of your book.