I’m very excited to introduce my friend, author and illustrator Ben Lueders on a brand-new podcast from the As Told By C.S. Beaty empire.
(00:00:01):
Everyone has a story to tell.
(00:00:03):
They’re just looking for someone who wants to hear it.
(00:00:06):
We assume no one wants to listen,
(00:00:08):
and because we already know our own story so well,
(00:00:11):
it gets a little boring to our own ears.
(00:00:14):
We start to believe that our life experiences are pretty much the same as everyone
(00:00:17):
else’s,
(00:00:18):
that our stories aren’t worth sharing,
(00:00:20):
that they’re not interesting.
(00:00:23):
But they are, and it’s my goal to prove it to you.
(00:00:26):
My name is Chris Beaty, and these are Interesting People.
(00:00:30):
Today’s guest is the guy who designed my book,
(00:00:33):
was in a band with me,
(00:00:35):
and sold me this podcast gear.
(00:00:37):
Author and artist, Ben Looters.
(00:00:42):
I don’t.
(00:00:42):
I bought this stuff from you and it took us two hours to do it and we didn’t make
(00:00:46):
it any farther.
(00:00:47):
And that was the story of the worst podcast purchase I’ve ever made.
(00:00:53):
Is this on?
(00:00:53):
Are you recording right now?
(00:00:54):
I am.
(00:00:55):
I mean, this may not make it to the end.
(00:00:56):
I got this magic audacity feature where for the next seven hours you can
(00:01:00):
individually cut certain things and change it and delete it.
(00:01:04):
It takes a really long time and it doesn’t turn out very well, but it’s awesome.
(00:01:09):
Oh man, I want to make sure I’m not like way over here like Bob.
(00:01:12):
Well, just like, should we put you in a rocking chair?
(00:01:14):
Because that’s how he did it.
(00:01:15):
Oh dude, that does sound good.
(00:01:17):
Yeah, he loved it.
(00:01:18):
When was the time you felt like a loser?
(00:01:21):
I didn’t
(00:01:39):
But I got a lot of matted fur cut out of my dog for that.
(00:01:43):
Well, hey, any time, bro.
(00:01:46):
Is that what it takes?
(00:01:47):
That’s the kind of show this is, just so you know.
(00:01:50):
It’s also the show that I’m getting really hot in this sweatshirt, so I’m going to take it off.
(00:01:54):
Oh, man.
(00:01:54):
I feel like this is why it needs to be a video podcast.
(00:01:57):
It is.
(00:01:57):
Every five minutes, Chris takes off another piece of clothing.
(00:02:01):
I reveal another tattoo.
(00:02:04):
Is that the only tattoo you... No, I got many.
(00:02:09):
You actually?
(00:02:09):
Yeah, you want me to do a naked podcast?
(00:02:12):
Is this going to be like the strip poker version of podcasts?
(00:02:15):
The thing about you,
(00:02:16):
Chris,
(00:02:17):
is like,
(00:02:17):
I think I know you really well,
(00:02:19):
but I don’t know you well enough to know sometimes when you’re joking and when
(00:02:23):
you’re not.
(00:02:24):
I never tell a lie.
(00:02:26):
That’s true.
(00:02:27):
I’m usually very odd.
(00:02:28):
I usually just try to frame things that makes you wonder if I’m telling the truth.
(00:02:31):
I think you say things that I hope you’re lying.
(00:02:34):
Yeah, they’re almost always true.
(00:02:36):
Yes, I have additional tattoos.
(00:02:39):
Would you like to see them?
(00:02:40):
Here’s one.
(00:02:41):
Oh, sure.
(00:02:41):
Here’s this one.
(00:02:42):
You should recognize this one.
(00:02:44):
Oh, that’s beautiful.
(00:02:46):
That’s the asterisk that I designed on the cover of your book.
(00:02:50):
I already told you that one’s below the belt.
(00:02:52):
No,
(00:02:52):
this is the tattoo from my wedding reception that you were at that apparently you
(00:02:57):
didn’t pay very good attention to.
(00:02:59):
Not enough to get it tattooed.
(00:03:01):
I have the arbitrary Greek tattoo that says,
(00:03:05):
hey,
(00:03:05):
this isn’t Greek and I don’t know what it means,
(00:03:07):
but it’s not Chinese,
(00:03:08):
so it’s trendier.
(00:03:10):
And then I have on my back, I have That one’s harder to do.
(00:03:14):
I can come over there and undress you a little bit.
(00:03:17):
It’s going to be hard to get on this mic here.
(00:03:20):
That one’s got cocaine leaves on it.
(00:03:24):
That’s the seal of where my kids were born.
(00:03:26):
And literally the outskirt of it, this is another, is he telling the truth?
(00:03:29):
It’s cocaine leaves.
(00:03:31):
Is it actually?
(00:03:31):
Yeah, coca leaves, not cocaine.
(00:03:33):
Oh, it’s because of Coca-Cola.
(00:03:35):
They’re big fans of Coca-Cola and Tuluwa.
(00:03:38):
Yeah, Tuluwa.
(00:03:39):
Do they make you get that when you adopt someone from there?
(00:03:42):
It’s part of the process.
(00:03:43):
It’s paperwork.
(00:03:44):
That’s why it takes so long.
(00:03:45):
Stand in line for your tattoo.
(00:03:47):
Yeah.
(00:03:47):
Yeah everyone’s got a good tattoo we adopted three kids so all of them have the matching tattoo
(00:03:52):
Make sure you’re a bad parent by getting a tattoo right away.
(00:03:57):
Literally,
(00:03:57):
I waited to get this tattoo until after the kids were adopted because I had this,
(00:04:01):
we were watching it,
(00:04:02):
my kids were adopted from Columbia,
(00:04:03):
so we had watched a lot of Narcos before we went,
(00:04:06):
which is all about- Is that required viewing?
(00:04:08):
Yeah, that’s another part of the problem.
(00:04:10):
That’s also why it takes so long because there’s a lot of seasons to get through.
(00:04:12):
And I literally thought through my head,
(00:04:14):
because you know they have gang tattoos and I’ve always heard people,
(00:04:17):
maybe not always,
(00:04:17):
I’ve heard that people will get gang tattoos and they’ll be like,
(00:04:21):
you don’t have a gang tattoo then they get like I don’t know what kind of show this
(00:04:24):
they get their ass kicked I don’t know what my level of if I’m gonna do the e or
(00:04:27):
not on this podcast we didn’t swear with Bob I think oh I’ve heard these stories
(00:04:32):
they like get their ass kicked for having like fake gang tattoos by real gang
(00:04:35):
members I don’t know if that’s an urban legend but like so my first thought was I’m
(00:04:39):
gonna get this tattoo of where my kids are from and find out that that’s some
(00:04:43):
Colombian drug cartel logo and like
(00:04:47):
Either that or it’s going to save your life.
(00:04:50):
Probably.
(00:04:51):
They’re going to be coming at you and you flash your tattoo.
(00:04:55):
And they’re going to be like, oh, he’s one of us.
(00:04:57):
El gringo.
(00:04:58):
It’s like the thing that saves you.
(00:04:59):
It’s like, yeah, that would be really good.
(00:05:01):
I just knew that I was going to be in a pool with my kids that I couldn’t speak to.
(00:05:04):
And they’re either going to offer me cocaine or I don’t know.
(00:05:09):
I’ve seen a lot of narcos and they never repeat a murder twice.
(00:05:12):
So I don’t know what they would come up with.
(00:05:15):
Oh, man.
(00:05:16):
So this is what podcasting is like, huh?
(00:05:18):
I guess so.
(00:05:18):
It kind of feels like just talking.
(00:05:20):
So far, it’s been very visual.
(00:05:22):
I do think this,
(00:05:23):
I think if you’re going to keep going in this way,
(00:05:25):
where you’re taking off layers of clothes,
(00:05:27):
you’re showing tattoos,
(00:05:30):
giving people questionable drinks,
(00:05:33):
this is something people need to see.
(00:05:34):
Well,
(00:05:34):
so far,
(00:05:35):
the only hookup I have with podcast equipment is you,
(00:05:38):
and you’ve proven yourself to not be a very good source.
(00:05:41):
Hey, I told you to get the right cables.
(00:05:44):
You got them.
(00:05:44):
You made it work.
(00:05:45):
Yeah, and
(00:05:46):
Those didn’t set you back too far, did they?
(00:05:48):
Yeah, those Amazon Basics $7 a cable really did the trick after two hours of troubleshooting.
(00:05:55):
All right, Ben Looters.
(00:05:57):
What makes you interesting?
(00:05:58):
Oh, man.
(00:06:00):
What makes me... That’s the first question?
(00:06:02):
No, the first question was, when did you feel like a loser?
(00:06:04):
And you already did that.
(00:06:04):
Oh, that’s true.
(00:06:05):
And the second question was, do you want to see all my tattoos?
(00:06:07):
That’s true.
(00:06:08):
We’re like halfway through the show.
(00:06:10):
We’re five minutes.
(00:06:11):
This is a seven-minute podcast.
(00:06:12):
Yeah.
(00:06:13):
We’re at the end where you reveal why I’m not, why I’m interesting.
(00:06:17):
The trick to editing this is you do everything in like reverse chronological order.
(00:06:21):
Oh man, what makes me interesting?
(00:06:24):
I mean, I think I’m like moderately interesting.
(00:06:29):
I think I have like,
(00:06:30):
when I talk to other people,
(00:06:32):
like I do feel like I have a pretty interesting job and like my origin story is
(00:06:38):
somewhat unique.
(00:06:39):
So I don’t know, I think I’m somewhat interesting.
(00:06:42):
Do you think I’m interesting, Chris?
(00:06:43):
I feel it’s a weird thing to be asked, like, what makes me interesting.
(00:06:46):
It feels like I have to,
(00:06:47):
like,
(00:06:48):
defend myself or do,
(00:06:49):
like,
(00:06:49):
the Midwestern thing where I’m like,
(00:06:51):
no,
(00:06:51):
I’m not interested.
(00:06:52):
Yeah, where you’re so modest that you just, you have to say I’m a very bland personality.
(00:06:56):
Yeah, exactly.
(00:06:58):
Because I think you’re very bland,
(00:07:00):
so I just don’t want to get into a conversation with you about your boring life.
(00:07:03):
Oh, man.
(00:07:04):
Well, no, I think you’re interesting, but I also think that, like,
(00:07:07):
I think that everyone’s interesting, they just don’t necessarily know it.
(00:07:10):
Oh, so I’m not special, is that what you’re saying?
(00:07:12):
No,
(00:07:12):
I’m saying I’m trying to decide whether or not you are,
(00:07:15):
and we’re going to see how this goes.
(00:07:17):
I will say this,
(00:07:18):
yes,
(00:07:18):
I do think you’re interesting,
(00:07:19):
but I also wanted to start,
(00:07:20):
other than the fact that you’re the only person I knew that had podcasting
(00:07:23):
equipment I could buy.
(00:07:23):
Other than that, I did want to, yeah, that part I was not aware of when I made this choice.
(00:07:30):
I did want to start with you because you were the person that I always feel like I
(00:07:34):
never get to say everything I want to say in a conversation.
(00:07:39):
So what I mean by that is there’s certain people who are like,
(00:07:42):
I think I’ll try to think three questions ahead because they’re so uninteresting
(00:07:47):
and be like,
(00:07:48):
oh man,
(00:07:49):
I’m stuck with this person for another 45 minutes.
(00:07:50):
Okay,
(00:07:51):
what are the three conversation starters that I kind of think might get them to do
(00:07:54):
something?
(00:07:55):
With you, it’s the opposite.
(00:07:56):
I come up with,
(00:07:57):
as you’re talking,
(00:07:58):
I think of three different routes we can go on that conversation.
(00:08:02):
Want to see my tattoo?
(00:08:18):
It’s really just Chris looking for an opportunity to show me his tattoos.
(00:08:21):
That’s what this whole podcast is about.
(00:08:23):
So I knew we could at least fill up 45 minutes,
(00:08:25):
but I have gone into lunch appointments before with you.
(00:08:28):
Appointments.
(00:08:28):
Appointments.
(00:08:29):
Yeah, because I’m your client.
(00:08:31):
So there are appointments now.
(00:08:32):
It used to be we would get lunch as friends.
(00:08:34):
Yeah, yeah.
(00:08:34):
It used to be friends.
(00:08:35):
Now it’s all transactional.
(00:08:37):
Business expense.
(00:08:38):
So now when I do my business meetings with you, like any good...
(00:08:42):
All right so here’s my list though all right so you were this is what I know about
(00:08:45):
you based off of what I wrote down
(00:09:10):
Our typewriter.
(00:09:11):
You were born in Japan.
(00:09:12):
That’s right.
(00:09:13):
Wow.
(00:09:13):
You grew up in Hawaii.
(00:09:14):
That’s right.
(00:09:15):
Your dad was a chaplain for some military something or other.
(00:09:18):
Okay.
(00:09:18):
Not a chaplain.
(00:09:20):
Okay.
(00:09:21):
Okay.
(00:09:21):
Here’s where you might.
(00:09:22):
So my dad is actually a Vietnamese linguist.
(00:09:24):
He had a mustache.
(00:09:25):
He did have a mustache.
(00:09:26):
I remember that part.
(00:09:27):
Vietnamese linguist in the military, in the air force.
(00:09:30):
And his job was searching for remains in the Vietnam War.
(00:09:36):
I just thought he was some guy that did a bunch of boring church services.
(00:09:39):
No.
(00:09:40):
Where you might be confused.
(00:09:41):
He’s an elder now in a church.
(00:09:44):
Okay.
(00:09:44):
He got boring.
(00:09:45):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
(00:09:46):
But he was cool.
(00:09:48):
My dad was like literal Indiana Jones.
(00:09:51):
Like he went to the jungles of Vietnam and Thailand.
(00:09:55):
He had like a machete.
(00:09:56):
And when you’re doing this job,
(00:09:58):
he’s a military guy,
(00:09:59):
but he’s not allowed to wear military uniforms,
(00:10:01):
so he’s wearing a boonie hat and a button-up unbuttoned.
(00:10:07):
It’s kind of cool.
(00:10:08):
Wait, button-up unbuttoned?
(00:10:09):
Describe that.
(00:10:10):
It’s like Indiana Jones.
(00:10:12):
It’s hot outside, and he has to unbutton a couple.
(00:10:16):
I see.
(00:10:16):
He was a really, really cool dad.
(00:10:19):
And I have all these, I don’t know, just imaginative...
(00:10:25):
We did go to a church where we had to bring a machete and that’s why you in the
(00:10:30):
jungle vacation Bible schools in Hawaii are a lot different that’s right we just
(00:10:34):
did really really
(00:10:59):
Okay, so that brings us to point number three on my list.
(00:11:04):
You grew up in Hawaii.
(00:11:05):
Your dad was not a chaplain.
(00:11:06):
You had something way more interesting that I already forgot.
(00:11:09):
You lived in Maryland for a while?
(00:11:10):
I did.
(00:11:12):
Two tours in Maryland.
(00:11:13):
Okay, two tours.
(00:11:15):
Yeah, I mean, it’s like you get stationed.
(00:11:17):
And my dad...
(00:11:19):
Okay, you should really interview my dad.
(00:11:20):
He’s more interesting.
(00:11:21):
We’ll do that next.
(00:11:22):
When we lived in Hawaii...
(00:11:24):
That’s when my dad would go and do the Vietnamese linguist thing over in Vietnam.
(00:11:29):
He’d take these trips.
(00:11:30):
In Maryland, he worked for the National Security Agency.
(00:11:33):
So he was the guy that was stealing everyone’s phone conversation post 9-11.
(00:11:37):
Yeah, basically.
(00:11:40):
I honestly didn’t know that was a thing before that broke with the Edward Snowden
(00:11:44):
and everything.
(00:11:44):
So the NSA has been stealing our information for longer than I thought.
(00:11:47):
Oh, yeah.
(00:11:47):
Well, so here’s the crazy thing.
(00:11:49):
When I was a kid,
(00:11:51):
and when we were living in Maryland,
(00:11:52):
it was in the 90s,
(00:11:53):
both times,
(00:11:54):
like early 90s and then late 90s,
(00:11:56):
and he used to always say,
(00:11:58):
hey,
(00:11:58):
if I told you,
(00:11:59):
you know,
(00:12:00):
what I did for a living,
(00:12:01):
I’d have to kill you.
(00:12:02):
He loved saying that.
(00:12:03):
Like, whether that was true.
(00:12:04):
He sounds like a green dad.
(00:12:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
(00:12:06):
But it just filled you with, like, one word.
(00:12:08):
Dread and terror.
(00:12:09):
Yeah, it was like, what?
(00:12:11):
If he accidentally did, would he just kill us?
(00:12:13):
I don’t know.
(00:12:14):
He had a hard day at work and said, man, I get tired of spying on Fidel today.
(00:12:18):
He’s like, ah, shit, Ben’s here.
(00:12:21):
Well, the funny thing is all that stuff, though, that he was doing is all declassified.
(00:12:25):
Now, he was still sticking to this line of, oh, I can’t tell you, can’t tell you.
(00:12:29):
Then one day,
(00:12:31):
like a few years ago I got him to tell me and I even recorded it because again he
(00:12:36):
can talk about it and it’s the craziest thing yeah again this is why he should be
(00:12:40):
on the podcast does he even want to talk about it like is he like is it just
(00:12:42):
something that’s so uninteresting to him no it’s I think he’s actually he’s quite
(00:12:47):
fascinated by the whole thing but basically think of this
(00:12:51):
When we left Vietnam, the Vietnam War.
(00:12:53):
We as in?
(00:12:54):
The Americans.
(00:12:55):
Okay.
(00:12:55):
Me and you.
(00:12:56):
When we lost.
(00:12:57):
When we went.
(00:12:57):
When you and I lost the Vietnam War.
(00:12:58):
I didn’t know we went there.
(00:13:01):
We left all of this equipment over there.
(00:13:03):
Just like we did with Afghanistan a few years back.
(00:13:06):
Whenever we leave somewhere.
(00:13:07):
You know way more about wars than I do.
(00:13:09):
Brilliant war.
(00:13:10):
That’s why I’m interested.
(00:13:11):
But basically we left all of this communication equipment and all of our stuff there.
(00:13:15):
We just left.
(00:13:17):
But part of it is kind of a strategic thing, because we know how to access all that stuff.
(00:13:21):
So basically, we’ve been spying.
(00:13:23):
After the war, we were actually spying on the Vietnamese using their own equipment.
(00:13:29):
And my dad was part of that.
(00:13:30):
He was translating stuff that they’re saying, because this was before ChatGPT or whatever.
(00:13:33):
Were they saying, hey, what is this thing?
(00:13:35):
How does it work?
(00:13:41):
I think I can share this, but if not, my dad might kill me once this goes live.
(00:13:48):
Good, because I’m running out of questions for you already.
(00:13:54):
I will not be a repeat guest.
(00:13:55):
Not at all.
(00:13:57):
Okay, well we’re off to a good start.
(00:13:58):
You went back to Hawaii.
(00:14:00):
Yep.
(00:14:02):
This is where I get sketchy because this is a story you told me and I didn’t really
(00:14:06):
understand all the nuances of it.
(00:14:08):
You’re writing this all down.
(00:14:09):
Yeah, well I can’t write it down.
(00:14:10):
I was trying to be a good friend and listen to you, but I mean a good business partner.
(00:14:14):
You fell in love with a girl and she moved away, right?
(00:14:18):
Yes.
(00:14:18):
And you thought she was the one.
(00:14:21):
It wasn’t just like
(00:14:23):
You legitimately thought you were going to marry her.
(00:14:26):
I was 12 and she was 9 and I have a song called 12 and 9.
(00:14:29):
By my favorite band.
(00:14:30):
You might remember this.
(00:14:35):
You down.
(00:14:36):
Yeah, so we were kids together.
(00:14:38):
We grew up.
(00:14:38):
We were both homeschool Christian families.
(00:14:42):
We went to the same church.
(00:14:43):
We had all this stuff in common.
(00:14:45):
And it was just like, yeah, young love kind of a thing.
(00:14:48):
But it just never really went away.
(00:14:50):
And then it get to a point where I don’t even really know her,
(00:14:54):
but it’s just built up in my head.
(00:14:56):
You know what I mean?
(00:14:57):
You just feel like you have to marry this person.
(00:15:00):
I’m a very loyal person, and it just like...
(00:15:02):
It felt like I had to, kind of.
(00:15:06):
It felt like I was already married to her.
(00:15:07):
It was fate, inevitable.
(00:15:09):
We never even held hands or anything, but I just feel like I have to.
(00:15:14):
This is the one.
(00:15:16):
She moves away, and then what’s the question?
(00:15:20):
Then what happens?
(00:15:23):
My next part was found her after you moved back to the continental U.S.,
(00:15:28):
asked her parents for a blessing to court or date,
(00:15:30):
maybe marry one day,
(00:15:31):
and your dad shot you down.
(00:15:34):
Her dad shot me down.
(00:15:35):
What happened was,
(00:15:39):
their family retired to Virginia,
(00:15:41):
and I ended up in Nebraska,
(00:15:43):
finished up some school.
(00:15:45):
And here I am, literally like 20 years old, finishing up community college.
(00:15:50):
When was the last time you saw her?
(00:15:52):
Or been in communication with her?
(00:15:54):
Like, was it a long-distance thing at that point?
(00:15:55):
Or just... Oh, yeah.
(00:15:56):
So they had been in Virginia for a while, and I had been in Nebraska and stuff.
(00:15:59):
And so...
(00:16:00):
But you’re still in contact.
(00:16:01):
Still in contact.
(00:16:02):
I was driving out there and seeing her and her family.
(00:16:05):
I flew out there at least once.
(00:16:10):
And anyways, I...
(00:16:13):
Up to this point, we’ve been together, quote unquote, for like since I was 12.
(00:16:19):
And we’re not an official relationship because we don’t really believe in that.
(00:16:22):
We kissed dating goodbye.
(00:16:23):
Okay.
(00:16:24):
Chris.
(00:16:25):
As I did as well.
(00:16:26):
And this is even technically a sanctioned like courtship,
(00:16:29):
but it’s just like this thing that Meg and I joke about it.
(00:16:32):
You’re saving yourself for marriage that may never happen because you can’t tell
(00:16:35):
somebody you like them.
(00:16:36):
So, I mean, it’s like pluses and minuses.
(00:16:39):
I mean, the plus, I guess, is that like
(00:16:42):
Because it was so unofficial and restricted, we don’t really have any regrets, I guess.
(00:16:48):
We never did anything, but we also didn’t really get to know each other.
(00:16:51):
So when her dad finally said,
(00:16:53):
hey,
(00:16:54):
don’t bother coming out here again,
(00:16:55):
because I was planning one last trip to see if we could make this work,
(00:16:59):
and he was like,
(00:17:00):
the thing he said was,
(00:17:01):
save the gas,
(00:17:02):
save the gas.
(00:17:04):
And I actually received it pretty well.
(00:17:06):
At that point, I had kind of gotten to the point where I’m like,
(00:17:09):
I don’t know if this is the right way.
(00:17:12):
I didn’t really know her.
(00:17:13):
I felt like we had been so...
(00:17:17):
Isolated from one another and we’d grown into different people.
(00:17:21):
It turns out she liked horses more than she liked people and she was living out in
(00:17:26):
the country and she ended up marrying this country doctor widower guy that was like
(00:17:31):
her dad’s age.
(00:17:32):
Really into horses.
(00:17:33):
Yeah,
(00:17:34):
they have horses I think and it’s a whole different lifestyle and I was this
(00:17:38):
graphic designer in the big city of Omaha and so it never would have worked.
(00:17:42):
Absolutely.
(00:17:43):
City folk just don’t understand them bumpkins us Nebraskans
(00:17:48):
Yeah,
(00:17:49):
but I mean,
(00:17:49):
like,
(00:17:50):
on the more spiritual side of it all,
(00:17:52):
now,
(00:17:53):
you’ll probably laugh at this,
(00:17:54):
but I listened to a Mark Driscoll sermon when I was driving back.
(00:17:58):
At the time, that was a good thing to do, but now we know better.
(00:18:02):
Well, it’s funny, because I wasn’t going to, like, an Acts 29 church or anything.
(00:18:06):
I was going to a really conservative,
(00:18:07):
like,
(00:18:07):
Presbyterian church,
(00:18:08):
and so listening to Mark Driscoll was edgy.
(00:18:09):
You didn’t get yelled at a lot.
(00:18:10):
Yeah, you didn’t get yelled at a lot yet.
(00:18:11):
I needed to.
(00:18:12):
So, like, I actually really, it was, like, a guilty pleasure listening to Mark Driscoll.
(00:18:15):
Oh, I’m sure.
(00:18:16):
But he basically was saying— That’s what he was going for, I think.
(00:18:18):
Oh yeah, for sure.
(00:18:19):
I mean, that Song of Solomon sermon series was...
(00:18:22):
I listened to all of that.
(00:18:24):
I learned a lot.
(00:18:26):
Didn’t we all?
(00:18:28):
Us kids at Kiss Dating Goodbye, now we have a pastor writing a book about anal sex.
(00:18:32):
Yeah, there you go.
(00:18:33):
So anyways,
(00:18:34):
when I was driving back from her family’s property in Virginia for the last time,
(00:18:40):
what ended up being the last time,
(00:18:44):
I turned on this sermon,
(00:18:46):
and he was just talking about...
(00:18:48):
Basically not making an idol out of things and being able to...
(00:18:51):
You know it’s not an idol in your life if you can go either way.
(00:18:54):
No matter what the decision is, you’re happy to go either way.
(00:18:59):
I did start really thinking about that and praying about that and being like, I need to...
(00:19:04):
It’s at a point right now where if this falls apart, I’m devastated.
(00:19:08):
I was like, this is ridiculous.
(00:19:09):
I don’t even know this person.
(00:19:11):
I had to let go of her.
(00:19:12):
When that call came, I was able to...
(00:19:16):
Yeah, I didn’t even shed a tear.
(00:19:17):
It was just like, alright, this is confirmation.
(00:19:19):
Move on.
(00:19:20):
And at that same time,
(00:19:23):
the woman I’m currently married to,
(00:19:25):
I already knew her and was getting to know her family.
(00:19:29):
So it was kind of like, a lot of people looked like a really quick
(00:19:32):
uh you know kind of what do you call that a rebound yeah relationship but really
(00:19:36):
like I had known her for many years as like a friend and was a part of her church
(00:19:42):
and a lot of stuff like that and so it looked like a quick rebound but really like
(00:19:46):
it wasn’t you know but I mean it sounds like you Meg your wife and this other this
(00:19:54):
horse horse gal sounds
(00:19:55):
It sounds like you’re basically like at the same you knew that as much about both
(00:19:58):
of them like the same about both of them yeah basically I feel like it wasn’t that
(00:20:02):
different the way you describe it at least think about this like in this like kind
(00:20:06):
of like ultra kind of conservative more restrictive you know whatever purity
(00:20:12):
culture buzzwords kind of culture um I love purity culture that’s that’s the name
(00:20:18):
of this podcast you seem like the type
(00:20:21):
You got all this cherub face energy Yeah It worked for me Mr.
(00:20:26):
Crud I like know Josh Harris now and I know he’s rejected it all but it’s like dude
(00:20:31):
it worked for me thanks for the book
(00:20:34):
Can you get him on the path?
(00:20:35):
So this is, we need to get Josh Harris and your dad.
(00:20:37):
That’s why you brought me here to, you gave me a couple drinks.
(00:20:40):
So part three, you’ve met Josh Harris and you’re willing to introduce him to me.
(00:20:44):
Yeah, that’d probably be a more interesting podcast.
(00:20:46):
But no, so basically like- You only guessed one.
(00:20:49):
When you’re not,
(00:20:49):
and I even think about this now,
(00:20:51):
like with my own kids as they get to that age,
(00:20:53):
like trying to just stay-
(00:20:56):
By C.S.
(00:20:56):
Beaty
(00:21:20):
I knew Megan as just like a girl that went to church and she was like hanging out
(00:21:23):
in groups and she was a friend I was not interested in her that way at all because
(00:21:26):
to be honest I thought one of my best friends was going to probably marry her
(00:21:29):
because he was kind of crazy about her and so and then came Ben and then yeah and
(00:21:34):
then he he found someone else and things fell apart with this other girl and it all
(00:21:38):
just kind of worked out but but I had all that time to just kind of see her as a
(00:21:42):
person you know and so then when you know
(00:21:45):
The romance could happen.
(00:21:48):
It just happened.
(00:21:49):
Did you feel like you were allowed to have romance, though?
(00:21:51):
Or even just be interested in someone?
(00:21:54):
I definitely felt like I could be interested because it was a very public,
(00:21:58):
unofficial relationship.
(00:22:01):
It was weird.
(00:22:02):
Exclusive, in a sense.
(00:22:03):
It was.
(00:22:04):
Everyone knew about it.
(00:22:05):
It was so understood.
(00:22:07):
Everyone knew we were an item, but it was unofficial.
(00:22:10):
So that’s the tricky part.
(00:22:11):
I don’t know what to really do with that.
(00:22:14):
Everyone was so afraid to put a label on it because they felt like,
(00:22:18):
well,
(00:22:18):
if you put a label on it,
(00:22:19):
then it’s official,
(00:22:20):
you’re getting married.
(00:22:21):
There was no real
(00:22:23):
We didn’t know what to do in that culture.
(00:22:26):
We didn’t know what to do with a relationship that wasn’t basically engagement or marriage.
(00:22:34):
And so he felt kind of betrothed, I guess.
(00:22:37):
Kind of like the old Jewish betrothal kind of feeling, I guess.
(00:22:42):
Where it’s kind of like, someday I’m going to marry so-and-so.
(00:22:45):
But until that time, enjoy your blue balls.
(00:22:47):
Exactly.
(00:22:48):
So that’s basically where I was.
(00:22:49):
All right, next part.
(00:22:52):
Yeah.
(00:22:53):
I feel like we could do a whole podcast episode on this because I can’t help but
(00:22:58):
put your experience on top of mine and compare and contrast because in some sense I
(00:23:03):
can totally identify with everything but I felt I was afraid to even talk to a girl
(00:23:08):
so that whole idea of being even it being understood that you knew somebody that
(00:23:12):
was exclusive even though if it wasn’t a label even that to me it wasn’t even so it
(00:23:20):
wasn’t allowed I was just terrified of it
(00:23:22):
By C.S.
(00:23:22):
Beaty
(00:23:46):
I don’t think I could come back from it.
(00:23:48):
I had such a fear of that.
(00:23:50):
We had no category for asking girls out.
(00:23:52):
That’s true.
(00:23:54):
I know what you mean though.
(00:23:55):
I’m trying to think back.
(00:23:58):
I did have a lot of friends that were girls.
(00:24:03):
I had a lot of...
(00:24:04):
I think because no one was dating, no one was even really courting or anything.
(00:24:09):
My older brother...
(00:24:11):
The first courtship I ever heard of courted my best friend’s big sister and they were married.
(00:24:20):
They were both 19.
(00:24:21):
They were both married.
(00:24:22):
They’re still married.
(00:24:23):
They’ve got six kids.
(00:24:24):
They live in the Seattle area.
(00:24:30):
Because there was no real official thing unless you’re ready to get married.
(00:24:35):
We would say things like
(00:24:38):
Don’t shop until you’re ready to buy.
(00:24:39):
Don’t stir up love before it pleases.
(00:24:41):
I think that’s from Song of Solomon.
(00:24:43):
That was kind of the mindset.
(00:24:44):
It’s been a while since I’ve listened to that sermon series.
(00:24:47):
Mark Driscoll, he’s been cancelled a few times since then.
(00:24:51):
He’s still going strong.
(00:24:53):
Yeah, which one?
(00:24:56):
But anyway, can you even find that old stuff?
(00:24:58):
Does it exist somewhere?
(00:24:59):
I’m sure somebody has it somewhere.
(00:25:00):
Some creepy guy’s got that in his basement.
(00:25:02):
Probably down here somewhere.
(00:25:03):
Oh, I’ve got it all, yeah.
(00:25:04):
You’ve got it all?
(00:25:05):
I bet I have it on an iPod still.
(00:25:07):
Yeah, no kidding.
(00:25:08):
But yeah, basically, I don’t know.
(00:25:12):
Because there wasn’t really any real relationship status you could kind of hope
(00:25:17):
for,
(00:25:17):
it was all very...
(00:25:20):
I don’t know.
(00:25:20):
We could just kind of be friends, too, and it was kind of cool.
(00:25:23):
Except for,
(00:25:24):
I mean,
(00:25:24):
I don’t know,
(00:25:24):
for me and that other girl,
(00:25:26):
we just kind of thought,
(00:25:29):
without expressing it to one another,
(00:25:31):
that someday we’d be married.
(00:25:32):
I don’t know.
(00:25:33):
But the culture or the community kind of reinforces some of those things, too.
(00:25:37):
Oh, for sure.
(00:25:37):
You know what I mean?
(00:25:38):
Absolutely.
(00:25:39):
I look back on it and it’s like why did I fall so head over heels for her and part
(00:25:44):
of it was because I overheard other people talking about us and it made me feel
(00:25:47):
good it’d be like oh man you see those two what a cute couple and someday and you
(00:25:52):
know we were both into music and that can also help she wrote songs I wrote songs
(00:25:57):
and that just like it kind of just fit this storybook image you know in my head and
(00:26:04):
so I don’t know like I said purity culture worked great for me um
(00:26:10):
That’s the name of my book.
(00:26:11):
Our next guest would just talk to myself and read my own book out loud.
(00:26:16):
Actually, just listen to my audio book and you can hear my take on that or my response.
(00:26:24):
Next question.
(00:26:24):
Okay, next question.
(00:26:25):
We’re 25 minutes in.
(00:26:27):
We’ve covered the Vietnam War.
(00:26:29):
We’re doing this podcast.
(00:26:31):
All right, so I put at some point got married to someone else.
(00:26:35):
So you skipped ahead a little bit.
(00:26:37):
Meg.
(00:26:37):
Meg.
(00:26:38):
Who is now the mother of a lot of kids.
(00:26:41):
Too many to count.
(00:26:42):
Yeah, we’ve got five kiddos.
(00:26:44):
Rounding up to ten.
(00:26:45):
That’s right.
(00:26:45):
And we have been married for 16 years as of last week.
(00:26:50):
So, yeah, it’s going great.
(00:26:53):
It’s awesome.
(00:26:54):
That is great.
(00:26:54):
That is great to hear.
(00:26:56):
And I don’t believe you.
(00:26:58):
You mentioned this a little bit.
(00:27:01):
So you’re a designer.
(00:27:03):
That’s right.
(00:27:04):
Graphic designer, branding designer.
(00:27:07):
So you started doing that.
(00:27:09):
Was it Metro Community College?
(00:27:10):
Did the program there?
(00:27:12):
How did this all come about?
(00:27:13):
Yeah, yeah.
(00:27:14):
So that...
(00:27:15):
Good question, Chris.
(00:27:17):
Thank you.
(00:27:17):
I’ve been told I’m good at this.
(00:27:19):
You are good at this.
(00:27:19):
Wow.
(00:27:20):
I feel so seen and heard by you.
(00:27:23):
I’m not listening, but I can see you.
(00:27:26):
I was homeschooled all the way through.
(00:27:29):
Well, all the way until I started going to college early.
(00:27:32):
So that’s kind of the thing with homeschoolers,
(00:27:34):
the really smart ones,
(00:27:36):
or the ones whose parents run out of patience and things for them to do at home.
(00:27:40):
When they’re about 15 or 16 they’ll like get early enrollment into a community
(00:27:44):
college or take the GED I actually took the GED when I was 16 and started going to
(00:27:50):
take various classes at various community colleges in Hawaii so there was one
(00:27:56):
called Windward Community College on the Windward side of Oahu
(00:28:01):
The main one was Leeward Community College on the Leeward side of the island.
(00:28:05):
They are so good at naming.
(00:28:07):
It’s kind of lame.
(00:28:09):
But it’s funny.
(00:28:10):
I was training to be a classical pianist.
(00:28:15):
I need to pronounce that better.
(00:28:19):
What is a classical pianist?
(00:28:22):
Pianist.
(00:28:23):
Pianist.
(00:28:23):
I think I said that right.
(00:28:26):
And I was convinced that I was, yeah, music was where it was at.
(00:28:30):
And so I started just taking electives of like ear training,
(00:28:35):
of theory,
(00:28:36):
music theory,
(00:28:38):
some classical guitar.
(00:28:40):
Lots of just music-related classes.
(00:28:43):
And I just fell into, accidentally fell into the world of graphic design.
(00:28:49):
My dad’s a military guy.
(00:28:51):
Everyone I knew was basically a military guy or worked on garage doors.
(00:28:54):
There was no category.
(00:28:57):
I was creative.
(00:28:58):
I always liked to draw.
(00:28:59):
I didn’t know there were so many garages in Hawaii.
(00:29:03):
More than you might think.
(00:29:04):
I didn’t have one, but some rich people have them, I guess.
(00:29:08):
But
(00:29:09):
I had no category.
(00:29:10):
I didn’t even think about how everything that you see.
(00:29:13):
I’m looking down and seeing all of these.
(00:29:15):
If only we had a video.
(00:29:16):
Yeah, if only we had a video.
(00:29:17):
All of these coasters in front of me and cool bottle designs you have up in your
(00:29:25):
beautiful bar here.
(00:29:27):
I never even thought that someone had to design all this stuff.
(00:29:29):
Someone had to draw all this stuff.
(00:29:32):
And...
(00:29:33):
I stumbled into it.
(00:29:34):
Literally,
(00:29:36):
this gal at my church asked me,
(00:29:39):
she said,
(00:29:40):
hey,
(00:29:40):
do you know anybody in the University of Hawaii school system that has an artistic
(00:29:48):
eye?
(00:29:48):
That’s what she said.
(00:29:49):
And I was like, well, that’s a very specific question.
(00:29:51):
It’s a weird way of asking that.
(00:29:53):
An artistic eye.
(00:29:55):
I know somebody has an astigmatism.
(00:30:10):
They were working for this research division of the University of Hawaii called the
(00:30:15):
Hawaii Coral Reef Initiative.
(00:30:18):
Not made up, but basically they helped raise money for scientists studying the coral reef.
(00:30:24):
And they needed someone to help them with publications about coral reef health.
(00:30:30):
How do we make this not boring?
(00:30:32):
Yeah, exactly.
(00:30:33):
And so she’s like,
(00:30:34):
do you know anybody in the University of Hawaii system who has an artistic eye?
(00:30:38):
That’s how she’s
(00:30:39):
I’ll let you know if someone comes to mind and then it was like literally three
(00:30:43):
days later I go wait a second
(00:30:46):
I go to Leeward Community College,
(00:30:49):
which is technically a part of the University of Hawaii system.
(00:30:53):
It’s not the University of Hawaii main campus, but it’s all part of the same system.
(00:30:58):
And I have an artistic eye.
(00:31:00):
Now,
(00:31:00):
if she had said,
(00:31:01):
who is a graphic designer or knows how to use Photoshop or something like that,
(00:31:05):
I would have no clue because I was not aware of that profession.
(00:31:09):
I’d never used an Adobe product like Photoshop or Illustrator, anything like that.
(00:31:14):
But she said artistic eye and I loved at that time I was doing a lot of drawing
(00:31:18):
caricatures of my friends so I just drew a lot for fun in between music classes and
(00:31:23):
stuff and piano lessons and things that I thought were like what I was going to do
(00:31:27):
and so a few days later I like reached out and I’m like I think that’s me
(00:31:33):
And so I go down to my first and one of my only job interviews ever,
(00:31:37):
which wasn’t really a job interview.
(00:31:38):
They just gave me the job because it was a student help job.
(00:31:42):
You didn’t get paid.
(00:31:44):
Barely.
(00:31:44):
It was a very small amount of pay, very few hours a week.
(00:31:49):
And they paid for me to learn all of the programs.
(00:31:54):
I took a non-credit Photoshop class,
(00:31:56):
a non-credit Illustrator class,
(00:31:58):
a non-credit,
(00:32:00):
it was before InDesign,
(00:32:02):
it was called PageMaker,
(00:32:03):
Adobe PageMaker.
(00:32:05):
And I got introduced to this crazy world that everything we see
(00:32:10):
is like designed and made and people will pay for you to do this stuff and logos
(00:32:15):
and it was like overwhelming because like I did have this artistic eye and so
(00:32:21):
immediately I just started shifting all of my studies towards the visual arts and I
(00:32:29):
also happened to run into this like retired Disney animator who was living in
(00:32:33):
Hawaii and
(00:32:34):
And teaching He’s the guy His name is Dan Boulos If you’re listening Dan Dan Boulos
(00:32:40):
Dan Boulos Look him up I need another podcast guest Dan Boulos Seriously I should
(00:32:44):
reach out to him He’s still around I think he still lives in Hawaii But if you look
(00:32:48):
him up He is the one that animated the wolves In Beauty and the Beast I think he
(00:32:53):
animated
(00:32:54):
Mrs.
(00:32:55):
Potts and Chip because everyone animates a different thing he animated at that time
(00:33:01):
the animation you actually had to draw it sell animation by him and he also
(00:33:07):
animated I think Flounder from Little Mermaid then he also did some stuff with
(00:33:12):
Quest for Camelot not Disney so he was this old school animator but he was teaching
(00:33:18):
some of the graphic design and animation classes in Hawaii at the community college
(00:33:23):
And it just opened me up to this whole world.
(00:33:26):
So at first I thought I’d be a storyboard artist for like Pixar or something.
(00:33:31):
But then I just, I kind of went all in on this Hawaii coral reef initiative.
(00:33:35):
And I ended up working there seven years.
(00:33:36):
Even after I graduated, I kept the job.
(00:33:39):
Even when I moved to Omaha and I married Meg, I kept that job.
(00:33:44):
That’s what I bought my first house on was this job.
(00:33:46):
No coral reefs in Omaha, by the way.
(00:33:49):
Yeah, no coral reefs here.
(00:33:51):
But I was literally,
(00:33:53):
when I was first married,
(00:33:55):
living here,
(00:33:55):
I was working full time for the Hawaii Coral Reef Initiative and I was doing remote
(00:34:01):
work from my basement way before it was cool.
(00:34:04):
In 2010,
(00:34:05):
2011,
(00:34:07):
working for this organization in Hawaii,
(00:34:10):
drawing pictures of fish all day and doing publication design and layout.
(00:34:16):
It was insane.
(00:34:17):
So what would they do with your fish?
(00:34:19):
Okay,
(00:34:20):
so the big thing that we did,
(00:34:21):
we did a few things,
(00:34:22):
but the big thing that we did was we created this really cool interactive public
(00:34:29):
school science curriculum for Hawaii public schools called Reef Pulse Hawaii,
(00:34:34):
where it ended up being a thousand-page curriculum with full-color illustrations
(00:34:39):
that I did.
(00:34:40):
So no kids reading that.
(00:34:42):
Yeah, exactly.
(00:34:43):
Seven years wasted.
(00:34:45):
I don’t know if this was ever used, to be honest.
(00:34:47):
It’s like a seven year project.
(00:34:49):
I kid you not.
(00:34:50):
But the interesting part was it was so tailored to my skills that there was also
(00:34:58):
this whole science song component and I wrote and recorded
(00:35:04):
like I think 30 science songs wow for kids it’s a part of the school bus yeah it’s
(00:35:10):
like that and it was I got to explore all these different styles of music I mean
(00:35:14):
some of it’s better than others other parts of it you know it’s rough around the
(00:35:17):
edges but it’s just funny because I had this like little mini career where I had to
(00:35:21):
learn publication design I had to learn illustration I had to learn music recording
(00:35:26):
you’d think I’d be better at recording podcasts and stuff
(00:35:31):
But yeah, it was like so weird.
(00:35:35):
Like I got to do all this stuff.
(00:35:36):
And the other crazy part about it too is my younger brother Abe,
(00:35:41):
he worked for them as well doing web design and video stuff and animation.
(00:35:44):
And so him and I were like,
(00:35:47):
Before I married Meg,
(00:35:48):
we were living together and going to school here in Omaha and both working for the
(00:35:52):
Hawaii Coral Reef Initiative and doing all this crazy stuff together,
(00:35:56):
making flash websites and even storyboards for animated science videos.
(00:36:03):
It was wild.
(00:36:04):
At 17, 18, 19 years old.
(00:36:07):
It was wild.
(00:36:07):
So that was your full-time job?
(00:36:09):
It turned into a full-time job.
(00:36:10):
It started part-time, turned into a full-time job with benefits.
(00:36:15):
I feel like that happens to every artist.
(00:36:23):
Now I’m back there.
(00:36:24):
Now I do this again.
(00:36:25):
Way to bury the lead.
(00:36:27):
That was my funny part at the end.
(00:36:29):
I’m going to read the last bullet here.
(00:36:32):
And now you’re living in your parents’ basement and talking to me as the very first
(00:36:36):
guest on a podcast that didn’t exist until this very interview.
(00:36:40):
that was that was the return home part of the hero’s journey but we skipped all the
(00:36:44):
good parts all the good parts yeah well it is funny because like yeah I literally
(00:36:48):
yeah as Chris just uh gave away I go by C.S.
(00:36:52):
Beaty we C.S.
(00:36:54):
Beaty uh just gave away um B.A.
(00:36:58):
Looters over here um
(00:37:05):
We sold our Benson home and we’re looking for a house and living with my parents.
(00:37:09):
So I am living in my parents’ basement and running my design studio out of my
(00:37:15):
parents’ basement at the moment.
(00:37:17):
Hopefully not forever.
(00:37:18):
I wish I was in your basement.
(00:37:19):
Look how cool this is.
(00:37:20):
My basement is way better than your parents’ basement.
(00:37:24):
I should move in.
(00:37:25):
If you take one of my three kids and have the basement.
(00:37:28):
I promise I won’t.
(00:37:29):
I will take that trade.
(00:37:30):
Well, your kids are probably better than mine.
(00:37:32):
I could probably I’d probably bring one of them I’ve got a lot of kids I don’t know
(00:37:35):
I wouldn’t even notice you probably wouldn’t even notice so alright so let’s fill
(00:37:39):
in these gaps here so how did you end up in Omaha yeah yeah okay so this is
(00:37:44):
actually so somewhat easy so I again was going to community college in Hawaii
(00:37:49):
switching from music to design related stuff I have this part time job but I’m
(00:37:54):
still living at home I’m living with my parents I’m 18 and I turn 19 I’m like this
(00:37:59):
is getting crazy I need to move out
(00:38:01):
But Hawaii is the most expensive place to move in.
(00:38:04):
And so I’m looking at places that I could move in with maybe, I don’t know, six of my friends.
(00:38:08):
It’s like, okay, we’re going to have to split this a lot of different ways.
(00:38:12):
But a lot of them were going off to college in the mainland, as we call it.
(00:38:17):
And I was just realizing, oh man, this is going to be super expensive.
(00:38:21):
And that’s when my younger brother,
(00:38:23):
Abe,
(00:38:23):
who was really young,
(00:38:26):
because he’s homeschooled,
(00:38:26):
was going to community college since he was 14.
(00:38:28):
He was like,
(00:38:31):
Ben,
(00:38:32):
we get in-state tuition,
(00:38:33):
apparently,
(00:38:34):
this is true,
(00:38:35):
you get in-state tuition when you’re a military dependent,
(00:38:38):
and we word military dependents,
(00:38:40):
Where your parent in the military is stationed,
(00:38:46):
and I guess where they’re from,
(00:38:47):
like where their home base is,
(00:38:48):
I don’t understand,
(00:38:50):
which is technically Omaha.
(00:38:51):
So I would get in-state tuition in Hawaii,
(00:38:53):
where my dad was stationed,
(00:38:55):
or I would get in-state tuition in Omaha,
(00:38:57):
where my dad is from,
(00:38:58):
I guess.
(00:38:59):
And it was like, well, you look at out-of-state tuition, that was really expensive anywhere, and
(00:39:05):
But I was like, wow, I could move out in Omaha.
(00:39:07):
We started looking at prices of, like, apartments in Elkhorn, Nebraska, and stuff like that.
(00:39:12):
I’m like, you can buy three of these.
(00:39:13):
Dang, yeah, like, wow, I could do this.
(00:39:17):
I could pay half of this apartment, right?
(00:39:19):
So it just, like,
(00:39:21):
I was just like,
(00:39:21):
wow,
(00:39:22):
I’ll just go there,
(00:39:23):
finish up some school,
(00:39:24):
and then I’m sure I’ll move on to the East Coast,
(00:39:27):
the West Coast,
(00:39:28):
somewhere cool,
(00:39:29):
whatever.
(00:39:30):
I’ll be rich and famous.
(00:39:31):
I’ll figure it out.
(00:39:32):
Never thought I would stay here for very long.
(00:39:34):
It was like, this is where my grandparents were because my parents were from here.
(00:39:37):
But I was like, there’s no way I’m going to stay here for very long.
(00:39:40):
I’m going to finish up some school because it’s cheaper, and that’s it.
(00:39:45):
That’s not what happened.
(00:39:45):
But yeah, that’s what I thought.
(00:39:47):
No, we already covered that part.
(00:39:48):
No, we didn’t.
(00:39:50):
I don’t know where we’re at in this interview at this point.
(00:39:51):
Well,
(00:39:52):
basically,
(00:39:52):
I’m in Omaha,
(00:39:54):
and at the same time,
(00:39:56):
this girl that I thought I was going to marry,
(00:39:57):
her family relocates to Virginia,
(00:39:59):
and that’s where I keep on driving from Omaha,
(00:40:01):
Virginia,
(00:40:03):
trying to make this thing work.
(00:40:05):
It falls apart, and at the same time,
(00:40:08):
Megan is like and her family is a part of my life here in Omaha and it just it
(00:40:13):
moved pretty fast once everything fell apart the other girl it was like became
(00:40:16):
really clear oh dang
(00:40:18):
Why am I trying to marry this girl when I can marry this girl?
(00:40:21):
And so we were married pretty quickly after that.
(00:40:25):
So you met Meg through church?
(00:40:27):
Yeah.
(00:40:28):
She went to my church.
(00:40:28):
We were going to this small conservative Presbyterian church called Dominion
(00:40:34):
Covenant Church that still exists.
(00:40:37):
And my best friend was the pastor’s son, oldest son.
(00:40:41):
And he really liked Megan So I didn’t actually know her that well But he talked
(00:40:46):
about her all the time But he ended up moving away I could do a way better job with
(00:40:49):
her He moved away,
(00:40:50):
fell in love with someone else And I was in his wedding And realizing,
(00:40:55):
oh,
(00:40:55):
no one’s marrying Megan She’s available So I ended up marrying her She was super
(00:41:01):
cool It is funny I think you probably have this You have your heart so set on
(00:41:09):
something And then
(00:41:12):
You see what you should be attracted to or interested in or what’s actually compatible.
(00:41:24):
Meg and I are really well matched.
(00:41:26):
We’re totally opposites.
(00:41:28):
Totally opposites.
(00:41:30):
I’m an extrovert.
(00:41:30):
She’s an introvert.
(00:41:32):
She’s fiercely loyal.
(00:41:37):
I don’t know if you believe in the Enneagram.
(00:41:38):
That’s a big
(00:41:45):
I’m a big seven adventurer,
(00:41:48):
and she’s a one perfectionist kind of person,
(00:41:52):
if you believe in that sort of thing.
(00:41:53):
I hear some people do.
(00:41:55):
Yeah, some people do.
(00:41:56):
It’s fine.
(00:41:57):
I have conflicted feelings.
(00:41:59):
But anyways, we’re really different than one another, but it just kind of works.
(00:42:05):
Yeah.
(00:42:08):
Does the Enneagram think that you’re supposed to work?
(00:42:11):
That’s a good question.
(00:42:11):
I think it does.
(00:42:12):
I think opposites are supposed to attract.
(00:42:14):
When I think of the Enneagram,
(00:42:15):
I think of those placemats at Chinese restaurants that tell you the Chinese zodiac,
(00:42:18):
and it’s like,
(00:42:19):
if you’re a horse,
(00:42:20):
never marry a rat.
(00:42:23):
Which the real reason is because there’s an 18-year age gap,
(00:42:26):
and that’s probably not going to work
(00:42:27):
Maybe they’re on to something.
(00:42:30):
We do have a large age gap.
(00:42:31):
I will say that.
(00:42:34):
I’m very immature for my age and she’s very mature for age.
(00:42:38):
We meet in the middle.
(00:42:40):
Which leads me to the next part.
(00:42:41):
You started an app to sell flowers.
(00:42:44):
My gosh, Chris.
(00:42:45):
You’ve done your research.
(00:42:47):
I was friends with you when you did that.
(00:42:50):
That’s true.
(00:42:51):
I forgot about that.
(00:42:52):
So did everyone else.
(00:42:54):
I feel like I’m on Hot Ones right now.
(00:42:57):
I need some more of this it’s really good no it’s fine we’re just drinking like
(00:43:04):
sailors over here those of you on the video broadcast that’s right well I answer
(00:43:10):
this question Chris is like heading over to the bar but yeah so a couple friends
(00:43:15):
from church oh my gosh we’re getting straight bourbon here on the rocks okay
(00:43:22):
Anyways,
(00:43:23):
a couple friends from church,
(00:43:24):
they had this idea for a flower delivery app that we ended up calling Zinnia.
(00:43:31):
Basically, I was just starting my design company, Fruitful, at the time.
(00:43:37):
They were like, hey,
(00:43:39):
Maybe if we give Ben like part ownership in this thing,
(00:43:42):
he’ll do a bunch of design work for us on the cheap.
(00:43:46):
So I did get to like really do a lot of like UI, UX design for apps and homepage.
(00:43:54):
Ultimately, it ended up not really amounting to a whole lot.
(00:43:57):
But we did, you know, we got into like an accelerator or whatever you call that.
(00:44:02):
We raised some money.
(00:44:03):
I remember when that happened because I remember being told to pray for you.
(00:44:06):
You probably should have prayed some more.
(00:44:12):
It’s your fault.
(00:44:13):
Blame it on me.
(00:44:13):
I did buy flowers from you, though.
(00:44:15):
I thought that might actually help.
(00:44:16):
Well, we did end up selling.
(00:44:18):
We did sell to a florist in town.
(00:44:20):
I think Janusek Florist still has the site.
(00:44:22):
I think it still exists.
(00:44:24):
It’s kind of an old Squarespace site.
(00:44:26):
Could probably use an update.
(00:44:28):
But it ended up just being a lot smaller.
(00:44:31):
The original concept of it, Chris, was more of like...
(00:44:36):
It’s going to sound cliche.
(00:44:38):
More of like the Airbnb for florists,
(00:44:41):
where basically florists would be able to have an account and be able to sell their
(00:44:47):
flowers on this marketplace like Airbnb.
(00:44:51):
That was the idea initially.
(00:44:52):
But basically, we went through that accelerator.
(00:44:54):
They’re like, this is, oh, you pulled it up.
(00:44:56):
Yeah, no, it’s still there.
(00:44:57):
GoZidia.com.
(00:44:58):
I bought flowers from it.
(00:44:59):
It still exists.
(00:44:59):
It’s got your logo on it.
(00:45:01):
You made this logo, right?
(00:45:01):
Yeah, I made that logo.
(00:45:02):
Yeah, actually, Aaron Pilly and I did that.
(00:45:04):
I think Aaron really did the lettering on that.
(00:45:07):
Seems like your style.
(00:45:08):
GoZinnia.com to send flowers in Omaha.
(00:45:12):
If you’re in Omaha.
(00:45:13):
Only if you’re in Omaha.
(00:45:15):
And they come in a burlap sack.
(00:45:16):
Yeah,
(00:45:17):
basically the final version of Zinnia,
(00:45:19):
it went far away from the marketplace and it just became like,
(00:45:23):
hey,
(00:45:23):
if you order from,
(00:45:24):
you can order these set like bouquets from Zinnia,
(00:45:27):
GoZinnia.com and Janusek Florist will make them and drive them out and deliver
(00:45:32):
them.
(00:45:32):
And they’re all named after your wives.
(00:45:34):
Yeah, they were like all named after the wives of the founders.
(00:45:39):
Is there actually a Meg?
(00:45:40):
I can’t even remember.
(00:45:41):
Yeah,
(00:45:41):
I don’t remember what the arrangement was,
(00:45:43):
but I remember they’re all,
(00:45:43):
like,
(00:45:43):
how’d they come up with these?
(00:45:45):
Oh, yeah, it’s their wives’ names.
(00:45:46):
Yeah, it’s kind of creepy, isn’t it?
(00:45:48):
Yeah, everyone knows our wives.
(00:45:49):
I’ve done buying those Megan flowers.
(00:45:50):
The Megan flowers.
(00:45:53):
Gross.
(00:45:54):
Oh, man.
(00:45:55):
Canceled.
(00:45:57):
Canceled before even, we didn’t even release the first podcast, and it’s already been canceled.
(00:46:01):
That’s so funny.
(00:46:02):
I kind of, like,
(00:46:04):
yeah I’ve forgotten that I learned a lot of stuff during that that phase it was
(00:46:08):
kind of kind of crazy because like yeah a couple of his friends you know Nathan and
(00:46:13):
Andy who were kind of doing that they they put a lot on the line both of them kind
(00:46:17):
of left their main jobs for a minute and tried it out and you didn’t you’re I
(00:46:22):
didn’t no no no I’m not that dumb yeah they gave me 10% of the company but like
(00:46:28):
Because there were some investors when we went through that accelerator.
(00:46:31):
Janice Tech Forest did pay us.
(00:46:34):
They paid us to purchase the name and the website and everything.
(00:46:38):
But because we owed all this money to these investors, I think I made like $36.
(00:46:43):
Or like $64.
(00:46:44):
I think that’s my exact royalties on my book so far.
(00:46:47):
Yeah, that’s right.
(00:46:48):
That’s like my royalties on my book.
(00:46:50):
But like, yeah, it was like under $100 for sure was my payout.
(00:46:55):
But I guess it’s better than owing something.
(00:46:59):
I bought a lot of flyers.
(00:47:00):
I still do every once in a while.
(00:47:02):
Now I’m a big fan of the Trader Joe’s bouquets.
(00:47:07):
That’s what my wife likes.
(00:47:08):
That’s what the real Megan likes, is buying Trader Joe’s bouquets.
(00:47:11):
Yeah, so I switched to that because...
(00:47:14):
It’s just easier.
(00:47:16):
Yeah.
(00:47:17):
But I did buy a lot.
(00:47:18):
Actually, I don’t know if you knew this or not.
(00:47:20):
Technically, I don’t know how technical it was.
(00:47:22):
Our wedding was done by Zinnia.
(00:47:25):
What?
(00:47:26):
Yeah.
(00:47:27):
I did not remember this.
(00:47:28):
Yeah.
(00:47:29):
So Andy’s wife.
(00:47:31):
Yeah.
(00:47:32):
Which floral arrangement is she?
(00:47:34):
Let me see.
(00:47:37):
I’ve had too many drinks.
(00:47:38):
You’ve had any?
(00:47:41):
Unless you’re counting your Yeti full of wine over there.
(00:47:44):
Yeah.
(00:47:46):
I don’t remember Andy Holtz’s wife’s name.
(00:47:50):
Why am I totally blind?
(00:47:51):
I don’t know.
(00:47:52):
She’s a great woman.
(00:47:52):
I’m sure she still is.
(00:47:53):
You have to delete this out.
(00:47:54):
Yeah.
(00:47:54):
I’m sure she still is.
(00:47:55):
But she was our... Katie.
(00:47:57):
Katie.
(00:47:58):
Yeah, Katie Holtz.
(00:47:59):
The Katie.
(00:48:00):
Sorry, Katie, when you listen to this.
(00:48:01):
Sorry, Katie.
(00:48:02):
I was thinking about my wife so much.
(00:48:03):
Yeah.
(00:48:04):
I know you’re a big fan of this podcast, so you’re probably very upset.
(00:48:08):
So Katie was our wedding coordinator.
(00:48:12):
Oh, yeah.
(00:48:12):
Yeah.
(00:48:12):
So she was working for the church.
(00:48:14):
That was her little gig.
(00:48:16):
She would coordinate weddings.
(00:48:17):
So we got married.
(00:48:18):
And she did all the coordinating.
(00:48:21):
It’s so important.
(00:48:22):
You’ve got to have a coordinator.
(00:48:23):
I didn’t really have a coordinator.
(00:48:24):
It can really help.
(00:48:25):
I really didn’t understand what her job was until I realized all the things that we
(00:48:29):
didn’t know what we were doing.
(00:48:30):
And then we’re like, oh, okay, this is great.
(00:48:33):
And what we were telling her, we’re like, this is its own podcast episode.
(00:48:39):
So we thought we had a hookup through Paige’s dad with the flowers.
(00:48:43):
And so it was just her dad’s always done a bunch of weird
(00:48:47):
By C.S.
(00:48:47):
Beaty
(00:49:07):
But so like we’re we’re just complaining to her about how like well we thought we
(00:49:12):
had a good hookup with a wholesale flower dealer we went to this wholesale flower
(00:49:15):
and we gave the name of the account they said oh that’s not been active for a long
(00:49:19):
time we’re like well thanks thanks future father-in-law
(00:49:23):
So we’re telling Katie the story and if you’re wondering what that background noise
(00:49:27):
is my wife is now getting into the tub above the ceiling above us it’s the running
(00:49:32):
water so Katie she goes well we probably have a wholesale account you can just use
(00:49:38):
ours and we’re like
(00:49:39):
Okay, but then what do we do?
(00:49:42):
And so Katie figured out like one of the, is it Epperson?
(00:49:47):
Emily Epperson?
(00:49:48):
Yeah.
(00:49:49):
She’s another big fan of the podcast.
(00:49:50):
I gotta give her a shout out.
(00:49:52):
Gosh, all these ladies that listen.
(00:49:54):
Yeah, good memory.
(00:49:55):
Wow.
(00:49:55):
Geez, Chris, you were insane.
(00:49:57):
so she was the florist and so she was she designed a lot of those bouquets yeah so
(00:50:01):
we got so katie reached out to her because it was still very like zinni was still a
(00:50:05):
thing yeah reached out to her uh gave us a sweet deal on the uh on everything
(00:50:10):
because they wanted they didn’t know if they wanted to do weddings or not and so
(00:50:13):
like they basically just gave it to us at cost oh my goodness to promote and say we
(00:50:18):
did this wedding and so like you probably ran a lot of stuff on your website or
(00:50:22):
somebody did about my wedding and you know you were actually even there and
(00:50:27):
He had no recollection of this.
(00:50:28):
No, I did not remember.
(00:50:30):
Yeah, so it was like Paige showed me, I think, what did we use, Facebook back then?
(00:50:36):
Yeah, probably.
(00:50:37):
Zinnia Facebook.
(00:50:38):
Yeah.
(00:50:39):
Talked about our wedding and used our wedding as like advertisement of,
(00:50:42):
look at this great wedding game.
(00:50:43):
And it turned out great.
(00:50:44):
I’m going to dig this up.
(00:50:45):
I still have the dead wedding bouquet upstairs.
(00:50:47):
Do you really?
(00:50:48):
Well, I mean, doesn’t everybody keep their wedding bouquet?
(00:50:51):
I guess I don’t.
(00:50:52):
Maybe Meg has it somewhere in storage.
(00:50:55):
My goodness.
(00:50:56):
You have such a good memory.
(00:50:58):
Your marriage isn’t as strong as ours.
(00:50:59):
Apparently not.
(00:51:00):
If I had that dead bouquet, I don’t, man.
(00:51:02):
Yeah.
(00:51:02):
Well, and I actually, my one contribution to our floral arrangement was
(00:51:08):
I was in a wedding where they used silk flowers.
(00:51:10):
Like I was like a groomsman or something.
(00:51:11):
I loved it because I didn’t have to worry about destroying it.
(00:51:14):
And so I said, I want fake flowers for our, what do they call them?
(00:51:17):
Oh, the corsage.
(00:51:18):
Corsage.
(00:51:19):
Is that what it is?
(00:51:20):
Yeah.
(00:51:20):
So I said,
(00:51:20):
I want a fake flower because I said,
(00:51:22):
I don’t want to worry the whole night about,
(00:51:23):
am I going to kill this
(00:51:25):
You know, living thing, this delicate thing.
(00:51:28):
I just want to be able to pick up a kid and swing it.
(00:51:30):
You want something fake just like you.
(00:51:32):
Yes, it was a good metaphor for our marriage.
(00:51:36):
It’s like everything’s been fake up to this point.
(00:51:39):
Why stop now?
(00:51:41):
Okay, so after you started around that time, we’ve already alluded to this, you started a band.
(00:51:46):
You found a really amazing diamond in the rough to be your drummer.
(00:51:50):
You got offered a recording contract and turned it down.
(00:51:54):
That’s true.
(00:51:54):
Some of us wanted to take that deal, by the way.
(00:51:56):
Okay, so remind me of what that was.
(00:51:59):
It’s so funny.
(00:52:00):
Your memory is so much better than mine.
(00:52:02):
When I was reading that in your book and stuff, I’m like, this did happen, but did I...
(00:52:09):
It meant a lot more to him.
(00:52:10):
It meant way more to you than to me, apparently.
(00:52:14):
You were still allowed to play on church worship, so I was clinging on to anything I could.
(00:52:17):
This was it.
(00:52:18):
This was everything for you.
(00:52:19):
But what was that?
(00:52:20):
Was that through Schaefer?
(00:52:22):
Ben Schaefer.
(00:52:22):
Ben Schaefer.
(00:52:23):
Yeah.
(00:52:24):
Okay, now that...
(00:52:25):
I mean, if you phrase it like that, it sounds like a bigger deal than it was.
(00:52:29):
Right.
(00:52:29):
But it was legitimate.
(00:52:31):
Somebody offered to pay us to record a CD.
(00:52:34):
Right.
(00:52:34):
Which is, by definition, a recording contract.
(00:52:36):
That is a recording contract.
(00:52:37):
He did have a...
(00:52:38):
He literally gave you a piece of paper that we reviewed and said something about-
(00:52:42):
Did we review a paper?
(00:52:43):
You might have.
(00:52:44):
He made,
(00:52:45):
because I remember he made a comment about this is a standard deal for whatever,
(00:52:48):
whatever.
(00:52:48):
I don’t know if I ever actually saw a paper, but we, yeah, we had something.
(00:52:52):
I’m like picturing, have you seen the Muppet movie?
(00:52:55):
Well, there’s like 20 of them.
(00:52:56):
No, the original The Muppet movie.
(00:52:58):
I don’t know.
(00:52:59):
You mean The Muppet Christmas Carol?
(00:53:00):
No, no.
(00:53:01):
That’s also good.
(00:53:01):
With Gonzo as Charles Dickens?
(00:53:03):
I’ve seen that one.
(00:53:04):
The Muppet movie from like 1970, whatever.
(00:53:06):
The first one where they’re trying to go to Hollywood and break into movies.
(00:53:10):
And the very end
(00:53:11):
They come up to Orson Welles.
(00:53:13):
He’s in the studio in Hollywood.
(00:53:16):
He’s got a big beard.
(00:53:17):
You’re supposed to know who this is.
(00:53:18):
Yeah, he turns around.
(00:53:18):
It’s a cameo, and it’s like Orson Welles.
(00:53:21):
And they say, hey, we’re here to become rich and famous or whatever.
(00:53:25):
And he just stares at them like he’s going to fire them.
(00:53:28):
And then he just pushes down the intercom button for the receptionist and is like,
(00:53:33):
prepare the standard rich and famous contract for Kermit the Frog and
(00:53:41):
He was the Orson Welles in that situation.
(00:53:44):
Yeah, and you...
(00:53:45):
Turned it on down.
(00:53:47):
And you, like the Muppet that you are, didn’t understand what was going on.
(00:53:50):
I was basically Gonzo.
(00:53:51):
Yeah.
(00:53:51):
Yeah, well, it’s so funny.
(00:53:52):
So,
(00:53:52):
yeah,
(00:53:54):
like I said before,
(00:53:54):
I was super into music when I was living in Hawaii,
(00:53:58):
and I started writing songs when I was,
(00:54:00):
like,
(00:54:01):
14.
(00:54:01):
Most of them were love songs about that girl that I wanted to marry.
(00:54:04):
But, like, you know, I kind of went from...
(00:54:08):
Just classical music to like,
(00:54:10):
yeah,
(00:54:10):
writing a lot of my own songs,
(00:54:12):
started teaching myself guitar,
(00:54:13):
stuff like that.
(00:54:15):
And I always like wanted to be in a band,
(00:54:17):
you know,
(00:54:18):
but like I always also,
(00:54:20):
you know,
(00:54:20):
felt like my stuff wasn’t good enough or like I was afraid of what people would
(00:54:23):
think or I just felt self-conscious that people would,
(00:54:28):
I don’t know,
(00:54:29):
because I wrote all the songs that they would think I’m controlling.
(00:54:33):
I don’t know, I just, I was afraid of, are you playing our music right now?
(00:54:39):
Can they hear this?
(00:54:40):
I don’t know.
(00:54:40):
I don’t know how these podcasts work.
(00:54:43):
For those of you that aren’t on the video pod,
(00:54:44):
we’re now playing track number 10,
(00:54:47):
Jingle Jingle America by Ben Looters from This Battle album from Piano Frog
(00:54:54):
Records.
(00:54:54):
There you go.
(00:54:55):
Totally made up record label, by the way.
(00:54:58):
Just like my made up book.
(00:54:59):
That’s right.
(00:55:00):
Fake just like your corsage.
(00:55:02):
Yep.
(00:55:05):
I haven’t listened to this in a long time.
(00:55:06):
I’ve never.
(00:55:07):
I’ve actually never listened.
(00:55:08):
So I remember being.
(00:55:09):
This is actually a good one to start with.
(00:55:11):
Yeah.
(00:55:12):
I don’t know how to use my CD player ever.
(00:55:13):
So we started either.
(00:55:14):
So we started track 10.
(00:55:15):
I remember being at a. I don’t even know.
(00:55:17):
We were talking about the why you started a band.
(00:55:20):
But I remember at a. I should probably say I was the drummer at this band.
(00:55:23):
I don’t know if that was actually stated.
(00:55:25):
And I was at a rehearsal digging through all your.
(00:55:27):
We were at the Fruitful Design office.
(00:55:30):
Yep.
(00:55:30):
And I was very bored.
(00:55:32):
Like I usually am in rehearsal.
(00:55:33):
By C.S.
(00:55:34):
Beaty
(00:55:54):
I have another couple boxes of these if you want to give them to all your friends.
(00:55:57):
All my podcasts.
(00:55:59):
So,
(00:55:59):
like and subscribe and send me an email and we will send you a complimentary album
(00:56:04):
of Jingle...
(00:56:05):
No,
(00:56:05):
This Battle by Ben Looters.
(00:56:08):
That’s right.
(00:56:09):
Yeah, it’s crazy.
(00:56:12):
I started writing, like, some of these songs I wrote when I was quite young.
(00:56:15):
This album I put together myself didn’t master it or anything.
(00:56:20):
It’s kind of poorly recorded, but...
(00:56:23):
I recorded it mainly when I was like 19, 20, 21.
(00:56:27):
I think something like that.
(00:56:30):
And it’s so hard for me to talk with this playing
(00:56:37):
But uh anyways yeah like I always like wanted to be in a band or start a band but
(00:56:44):
lacked the self-confidence I guess and so after I got married and I had a few kids
(00:56:50):
and I just like felt like gosh I need to do this or I’m gonna regret it kind of a
(00:56:54):
thing um now I wish I had done it when I was younger probably but then I guess I
(00:56:58):
probably would have started one with you no we were not friends when you were you
(00:57:02):
had way better friends back then you got right
(00:57:05):
It’s true.
(00:57:06):
Well,
(00:57:06):
it’s funny because what I ended up doing is I sent out,
(00:57:09):
it was the most insecure way to start a band.
(00:57:12):
So the funny thing, I don’t think you were in the original message.
(00:57:14):
No, I wasn’t.
(00:57:15):
I remember how I got asked.
(00:57:16):
Yeah, I blasted out, yeah, it’s in your book.
(00:57:19):
I blasted out a message to a handful of music friends.
(00:57:23):
So basically the other thing that happened was
(00:57:26):
In Hawaii, I didn’t have that many really good music friends.
(00:57:28):
I was like the big fish in a small pond where I grew up.
(00:57:31):
A small ocean in Hawaii.
(00:57:34):
Pacific Ocean.
(00:57:35):
There is not a lot going on there.
(00:57:38):
Man, I was leading worship in our small towns.
(00:57:40):
I literally think it was everyone but me.
(00:58:09):
You didn’t cross my mind when I thought of all the talented musicians I knew.
(00:58:14):
Luckily they all turned you down.
(00:58:16):
You were a later addition because I blasted this thing out to everyone that I knew.
(00:58:21):
I was like, hey, anyone want to start a band with me playing my songs basically?
(00:58:26):
And yeah, it was like Lucy, Whitney, and Aaron.
(00:58:29):
Did Dan right away?
(00:58:32):
I feel like Dan was a later addition as well.
(00:58:36):
So him and I were at the same first rehearsal.
(00:58:38):
Yeah, that’s right.
(00:58:39):
So it was just these three girls came forward.
(00:58:42):
And it was a little bit weird.
(00:58:43):
I’d actually been teaching Lucy, not piano, but teaching her songwriting at the 402.
(00:58:49):
I was a piano teacher, but she was good at piano, but wanted some help with songwriting.
(00:58:53):
So I actually knew some of the songs we ended up doing
(00:58:56):
I knew because I helped her in songwriting and teaching.
(00:59:01):
Composing.
(00:59:02):
And she was really good.
(00:59:03):
So that’s why I included her in it.
(00:59:05):
But it was kind of an interesting thing where basically these three single girls
(00:59:10):
said they were available.
(00:59:12):
And we were not.
(00:59:13):
Yeah.
(00:59:14):
By C.S.
(00:59:14):
Beaty
(00:59:34):
She was my first employee at my design firm.
(00:59:38):
So she was also a designer.
(00:59:39):
She did the Zinnia logo with me, like I mentioned.
(00:59:42):
And so she was like this known entity.
(00:59:44):
Whitney was her roommate.
(00:59:45):
And again, Lucy was someone that I had been teaching and I had known for years as well.
(00:59:49):
And so we did I think only one show where it was just me and these three girls.
(00:59:54):
Yep, I was there.
(00:59:55):
Yeah, so you were there.
(00:59:57):
Had I already asked you to be in the band to come and listen?
(00:59:59):
To come and listen, yeah.
(01:00:01):
That’s right.
(01:00:02):
So Chris played drums off and on at my church.
(01:00:06):
I was very off and on.
(01:00:07):
And it was one Sunday.
(01:00:09):
The one that I was on.
(01:00:10):
Yeah.
(01:00:11):
He had played this Sunday.
(01:00:12):
And I was like, oh, man.
(01:00:14):
He sounds just desperate enough that he might say yes.
(01:00:17):
Clearly.
(01:00:18):
I can’t believe these good drummers.
(01:00:20):
Clearly.
(01:00:21):
Because that’s the thing.
(01:00:22):
You actually asked, I think, every one of the other drummers that was playing at our church.
(01:00:27):
And then it was literally the one time I had played.
(01:00:31):
This guy.
(01:00:32):
He’s going nowhere.
(01:00:34):
I don’t know if we really talked about where my headspace was at.
(01:00:37):
I remember walking out of there feeling like garbage.
(01:00:41):
Absolute garbage.
(01:00:42):
It was a real bad experience.
(01:00:44):
It’s another podcast.
(01:00:47):
It’s something I still have a lot of resentment towards.
(01:00:50):
The people that were involved in some of those things.
(01:00:52):
I had always played the drums and been very...
(01:00:56):
I thought I was good, at least, you know, good enough to play in the venues that I did.
(01:00:59):
We were both living on islands.
(01:01:00):
We were both living on islands.
(01:01:02):
Both big fish and small pond.
(01:01:03):
Yeah,
(01:01:03):
and so then I go and I play this one time on a trial basis,
(01:01:06):
and it was very clearly communicated to me,
(01:01:10):
you do not have the gig.
(01:01:11):
Like, it was very clearly, you were only filling in, we do not want you doing this full time.
(01:01:17):
And I didn’t think it went particularly well.
(01:01:20):
I also thought it went well enough for me to not be treated that way.
(01:01:24):
I was in this weird headspace.
(01:01:25):
I got no positive feedback from anyone.
(01:01:28):
It was awful.
(01:01:29):
I walk out.
(01:01:30):
I didn’t know you at the time.
(01:01:33):
I knew who you were.
(01:01:35):
I knew of you.
(01:01:37):
You were in the band.
(01:01:38):
The band that I wanted to be in.
(01:01:39):
Playing the piano and stuff.
(01:01:41):
I remember walking out and you saying
(01:01:43):
You were talking to your little group of friends, probably Jacob, the videographer.
(01:01:48):
Yeah, probably Jacob.
(01:01:51):
You just literally went, hey, you ever thought about being in a band?
(01:01:53):
I was like,
(01:01:54):
Zacchaeus,
(01:01:55):
you come down,
(01:01:56):
because I’m coming to your house today,
(01:01:58):
is what I said,
(01:01:59):
I think.
(01:02:00):
You very much over-spiritualized the whole thing.
(01:02:02):
Yeah, it was weird.
(01:02:03):
But it was such a weird... For me, it was such...
(01:02:06):
I don’t know if I’ve ever told you how meaningful it was to me because I was just
(01:02:11):
in a bad spot and then you saying that was like really like this one guy who I
(01:02:16):
really respect and like at least musically I didn’t know if I knew respect to use a
(01:02:19):
person yet I hadn’t disappointed you not yet you’re very much on the fence
(01:02:25):
But the jury was very much out.
(01:02:27):
And then you just asked,
(01:02:29):
kind of sight unseen,
(01:02:30):
like this small little five song worship set where I got zero positive feedback
(01:02:34):
from anyone,
(01:02:35):
including the people that were kind of obligated by God to encourage me.
(01:02:39):
And then I was like, this dude wanted me to be in a band after this one thing.
(01:02:43):
And then I went and I remember you invited me and said,
(01:02:46):
hey,
(01:02:46):
you know,
(01:02:46):
you don’t got to commit to anything,
(01:02:47):
but come,
(01:02:47):
we’re doing this show.
(01:02:48):
And you called yourself Ben and Friends because- Oh, that’s what we never named.
(01:02:51):
You made it up.
(01:02:52):
I think you literally made it up.
(01:02:57):
It was like a real contender to be the name of the band for a while.
(01:03:00):
We’re like, let’s just go with that.
(01:03:01):
I forgot we didn’t have that.
(01:03:03):
We’d spent a long time figuring out the name.
(01:03:05):
I remember the conversation.
(01:03:06):
You did not want it to be your name and something else.
(01:03:10):
That was the whole thing.
(01:03:11):
I’ve always wanted that.
(01:03:13):
Which I think the name of our band was so cool.
(01:03:15):
It was cool.
(01:03:16):
You invited me.
(01:03:17):
I remember listening to the music being like, this is awesome.
(01:03:21):
Legitimately like, okay, I want to be a part of this.
(01:03:22):
I didn’t know anybody but you.
(01:03:24):
But just the total quality was definitely there.
(01:03:27):
I could tell you guys had something.
(01:03:29):
And then I go to the very first rehearsal, and that’s when Dan comes.
(01:03:32):
And I knew Dan from some engineering classes.
(01:03:35):
Oh, you already knew him?
(01:03:36):
I knew of him.
(01:03:37):
We had taken some classes.
(01:03:38):
He was a familiar face.
(01:03:39):
Jeez, I forgot about that.
(01:03:40):
And we did that thing where we both looked at each other and went like, hey, Chris?
(01:03:45):
Dan?
(01:03:45):
Yeah.
(01:03:47):
Teacher’s pet.
(01:03:47):
Yeah.
(01:03:49):
You’re the guy in the engineering classes with long hair.
(01:03:52):
Yeah, you’re the guy that talks too much.
(01:03:54):
Yeah.
(01:03:55):
And then it was just it was like it felt like if any musician that could probably
(01:03:59):
relate to that feeling just like it felt like like that lightning in a bottle kind
(01:04:02):
of thing like that that moment where just it just do you remember what Dan was
(01:04:06):
playing though he wasn’t playing bass you but it was discussed it was like yeah you
(01:04:10):
said well Dan or you or him or whatever it’s like Dan’s a really good guitar player
(01:04:15):
but we actually need a bass and Dan said
(01:04:17):
I kind of want to learn how to play the bass.
(01:04:18):
Right, he didn’t know how to play.
(01:04:19):
He never played.
(01:04:20):
He learned for the band.
(01:04:21):
Literally, I got a bass and learned how to play bass.
(01:04:23):
But I think about it because we actually have recordings from that first practice
(01:04:28):
where he’s playing electric guitar.
(01:04:29):
That’s the only time we ever had electric guitar in our band was in that practice that one time.
(01:04:33):
And it was kind of cool.
(01:04:34):
He did some different stuff.
(01:04:36):
It would have completely changed the sound, but we did need a bass.
(01:04:38):
And he ended up really bringing the bass.
(01:04:40):
The vibe would have been so much different.
(01:04:41):
Because if you listen to any of his, I mean, fans of the pod know...
(01:04:47):
speak loud and advocate recordings that I drop into without any plan whatsoever
(01:04:52):
drop them into random podcasts I mean yeah that stuff is so much different than the
(01:04:57):
Cavalier it’s not melodic I mean his stuff is like he’s so out there it’s like
(01:05:01):
weird and experimental I think he would describe it that way too versus like the
(01:05:05):
Cavaliers are like melodic and building and like dramatic dramatic yeah it was kind
(01:05:11):
of a cool band I’m not gonna lie like I had a lot of fun doing it I don’t need a
(01:05:15):
lie
(01:05:16):
It was like,
(01:05:17):
well,
(01:05:18):
it’s fun because in the end,
(01:05:19):
you know,
(01:05:20):
at first I was like,
(01:05:20):
oh,
(01:05:20):
this is going to all be my music,
(01:05:22):
but it wasn’t.
(01:05:22):
You know, Lucy wrote a good handful of the songs and even led some of the songs.
(01:05:29):
There was shared leadership and
(01:05:32):
Even our single was actually Lucy’s song.
(01:05:35):
And Dan really brought the bass on that.
(01:05:38):
And you brought the drums.
(01:05:39):
It was a lot of fun.
(01:05:41):
I learned so much through that experience.
(01:05:45):
But it was hard.
(01:05:46):
It’s just crazy.
(01:05:47):
You were the only married person.
(01:05:49):
I was the only married person when we started.
(01:05:51):
You were the band leader by far.
(01:05:52):
You were the person with all the connections to everything.
(01:05:55):
And I’m starting a business at the same time.
(01:05:57):
And I’m having my third kid.
(01:05:59):
I was just in the wrong time of life to be trying to do this thing.
(01:06:05):
It was hard.
(01:06:06):
I’m glad I did it, but I just learned a lot about my own limitations during that time.
(01:06:14):
I’m really proud of the music.
(01:06:15):
I think about it all the time.
(01:06:16):
I listen to the few recordings I have.
(01:06:20):
all the time.
(01:06:20):
I think they still sound so good.
(01:06:22):
That single sounds so good, Hide and Seek.
(01:06:27):
And it’s like, man.
(01:06:29):
So who knows?
(01:06:29):
Maybe someday.
(01:06:30):
It was a weird thing to be a part of and think,
(01:06:32):
like,
(01:06:33):
I had been in a lot of bands and known they were bad.
(01:06:35):
Like, I feel like that’s... Maybe you’ve never had that experience.
(01:06:38):
See, I never had that, really.
(01:06:39):
Worship bands, and I was in worship bands, especially in Hawaii, that were like
(01:06:44):
they were really rough again like I was in situations where I was young and the
(01:06:49):
best person on the band and I wasn’t that good like you know what I mean it was
(01:06:52):
like there was this one guy I don’t want to call him he’s probably passed away he
(01:06:56):
was older playing drums and it was the first drummer we ever had in our church in
(01:07:00):
Hawaii because we were very conservative and like drums were a little bit of the
(01:07:03):
devil yeah which I’m sure you’re very familiar with yeah they still are but he oh
(01:07:09):
poor guy I’ll never forget it what’s this the song is is it
(01:07:14):
He is exalted forever exalted.
(01:07:16):
Is that the one?
(01:07:17):
Oh lord, yeah.
(01:07:18):
But he did a completely different, it was Easter Sunday.
(01:07:21):
Yeah, because that’s a 6-8.
(01:07:22):
That’s a tricky tempo.
(01:07:23):
He just started doing a 4-4 tempo and we’re like, oh no, buddy.
(01:07:27):
Oh, no, buddy.
(01:07:28):
But it was one of those things where- It changes everything.
(01:07:33):
Trying to do the right thing.
(01:07:35):
Oh, it was a train wreck that never righted itself.
(01:07:39):
And it was Easter Sunday morning.
(01:07:41):
It was like I’m back there just like tears in my eyes.
(01:07:45):
Not from the Holy Spirit.
(01:07:46):
No, no, no, no, no.
(01:07:47):
This was bad.
(01:07:48):
And so like that was like the worst.
(01:07:51):
I went through some really rough stuff then.
(01:07:53):
But yeah, being in our band, it was a lot of fun.
(01:07:57):
We had a lot of fun.
(01:07:59):
Listening to the banter and some of the recordings, we were having a blast.
(01:08:03):
It was good music.
(01:08:04):
I think that’s a weird feeling for me, being in all these shitty screamo bands.
(01:08:10):
I can scream.
(01:08:11):
Do you want me to scream?
(01:08:13):
Not this time.
(01:08:14):
We’re already over an hour on this.
(01:08:15):
Oh gosh, yeah.
(01:08:16):
This is going to be a three-parter right here.
(01:08:18):
It is, yeah.
(01:08:20):
So, next time on
(01:08:23):
And we’re back.
(01:08:25):
Yeah,
(01:08:26):
it was like,
(01:08:26):
there was this moment,
(01:08:27):
like,
(01:08:28):
several times,
(01:08:28):
like,
(01:08:28):
where it’s like,
(01:08:29):
you know,
(01:08:30):
the cliches,
(01:08:30):
the pinch yourself moment,
(01:08:31):
but just like,
(01:08:32):
I remember being very aware,
(01:08:33):
like,
(01:08:33):
this is actually good.
(01:08:35):
Like, this is actually good.
(01:08:36):
Like, it’s something where, like, Thank you.
(01:08:38):
Well, I was a part of it.
(01:08:39):
I was a part of it, too.
(01:08:40):
Yeah, that’s true.
(01:08:41):
I’m saying, I was also good.
(01:08:43):
Oh, I thought you meant Ben and Friends.
(01:08:44):
Oh, yeah, Cavalier was fine, too.
(01:08:45):
No, I mean, you were fine, but me, too.
(01:08:47):
I wasn’t like, you know, I guess.
(01:08:49):
Hey, we have to say where the name came from, though.
(01:08:50):
Okay, the Cavalier.
(01:08:51):
The Cavalier.
(01:08:52):
Okay, you say it.
(01:08:53):
Well,
(01:08:53):
I mean,
(01:08:54):
so we started all the practices in my office in downtown Benson,
(01:09:00):
Nebraska,
(01:09:01):
which is this old historic area and this old historic building.
(01:09:06):
And at the time,
(01:09:08):
my office,
(01:09:09):
the Fruitful Design Office,
(01:09:11):
and the 402 Arts Collective,
(01:09:13):
they were kind of rehabbing this old building.
(01:09:15):
And in the building was this old barbershop called The Cavalier,
(01:09:19):
which,
(01:09:20):
in fact,
(01:09:20):
I don’t even know if you know this,
(01:09:21):
but my grandpa used to get his hair cut there.
(01:09:23):
So my grandpa,
(01:09:25):
my mom’s dad,
(01:09:26):
used to tell me stories about going to get his hair cut at the Cavalier when he was
(01:09:30):
younger.
(01:09:32):
But it had this cool
(01:09:34):
You know, painted sign of the Cavalier.
(01:09:37):
It was a giant mural on the side of this brick wall.
(01:09:39):
Yeah, on the side of the brick wall.
(01:09:40):
And so as we were like exploring different cool indie hipster sounding names,
(01:09:46):
this somehow made it on that list.
(01:09:48):
It was literally something where I remember we had a long list and then we’re all
(01:09:53):
like,
(01:09:53):
and the Cavalier wasn’t on it.
(01:09:55):
It was like we had the, you know, what’s the name of the band meeting?
(01:09:59):
and there’s this long list and you had like this you know note on your phone if
(01:10:02):
that technology existed yeah you’re using some hipster app um that was Evernote or
(01:10:07):
something yeah for something something that I didn’t know how to use uh and and
(01:10:11):
we’re like going on from we’re all just kind of like no not that wasn’t really
(01:10:14):
right it was literally I don’t know probably you but somebody just went what about
(01:10:17):
the Cavalier and we went yes yeah like it was like this weird moment where we’re
(01:10:21):
just like that is the name and it was like a movie and we had to keep on then we
(01:10:24):
had to fight everyone wanted to call us the Cavaliers which yeah oh yeah the
(01:10:28):
Clevelands
(01:10:28):
We’re only one.
(01:10:29):
There’s only one of us.
(01:10:31):
We’re a collective of the Cavalier.
(01:10:33):
The Cavalier.
(01:10:36):
We’re the Cavalier,
(01:10:37):
which was actually misleading because I’m pretty sure the mural just said Cavalier.
(01:10:41):
Yeah, it just said Cavalier, but people called it the Cavalier.
(01:10:43):
And that was at a time when everything I branded,
(01:10:45):
I put a the,
(01:10:46):
because there’s also the 402 Arts Collective,
(01:10:49):
which I’ve actually rebranded them as just 402 Arts Collective.
(01:10:52):
So I was putting the before.
(01:10:54):
I can’t believe I wasn’t the Fruitful Design.
(01:10:57):
I should have been.
(01:10:58):
You would have done a lot.
(01:10:59):
You probably wouldn’t be in your mom’s basement.
(01:11:00):
I probably wouldn’t.
(01:11:03):
I’d be in your basement.
(01:11:05):
Doing a podcast to zero listeners.
(01:11:09):
Well, yes, the recording contract, I remember you, so Benjamin Schaefer, does he go by Benjamin?
(01:11:14):
Yeah, sometimes we distinguish our names that way.
(01:11:16):
Okay, so Benjamin, that sounds business-y, not you.
(01:11:20):
Ben Schaefer, owner of the 402 Arts Collective, because it wasn’t rebanded.
(01:11:26):
He offered to pay for us to record an album, a full album, and we thought about it.
(01:11:32):
But at that time,
(01:11:33):
the momentum was kind of dying,
(01:11:35):
and we had actually tried to record on our own,
(01:11:38):
and it was literally just Dan,
(01:11:40):
our bass player,
(01:11:41):
and me doing the drum tracks.
(01:11:44):
We recorded all the drums.
(01:11:45):
Does that still exist?
(01:11:46):
Dan lost the files.
(01:11:49):
We recorded a few more of them.
(01:11:51):
I don’t know why we think you’re the loser in the band.
(01:11:53):
It’s really Dan for doing that.
(01:11:54):
I didn’t know we thought that about me.
(01:11:56):
I’m sorry.
(01:11:57):
Inside words.
(01:11:58):
Inside words.
(01:12:00):
I’ve known it was Dan.
(01:12:02):
You
(01:12:03):
So he loses the files.
(01:12:05):
And it’s like very classic Dan.
(01:12:07):
He’s like, I don’t know what happened.
(01:12:08):
I don’t know.
(01:12:08):
I don’t know what happened.
(01:12:09):
I’m like, we spent a lot of time.
(01:12:11):
And it was a we thing.
(01:12:12):
It was a him and me.
(01:12:13):
So it wasn’t just me.
(01:12:14):
It was both of us.
(01:12:15):
And I know he spent time trying to tweak it and stuff.
(01:12:18):
Because I had like scratch tracks that you guys were playing with.
(01:12:20):
Yeah.
(01:12:21):
I mean, we had some stuff.
(01:12:22):
But we did the entire album on drums.
(01:12:25):
And it was a full 10 song album.
(01:12:26):
And then we’re like, maybe we’ll just do an EP.
(01:12:28):
I’m like, I already did the whole thing, guys.
(01:12:30):
and then he lost a bunch so we re-recorded them and then he’s lost them again like
(01:12:33):
I’ve asked him and he still doesn’t know where they are and then but around that
(01:12:36):
sad I’ve always like kind of like hoped that they still maybe I’m sure they still
(01:12:40):
do just Dan doesn’t know where they are doesn’t mean they don’t exist that’s true
(01:12:44):
so around that time Ben Schafer offers to pay to like I mean he and to clarify like
(01:12:49):
he owned the studio we were working at so it would have just been using the
(01:12:52):
equipment we’re already using and just having like more of an incentive to actually
(01:12:55):
do it and he paid for our single
(01:12:57):
Did he?
(01:12:58):
Yeah, he paid for our single.
(01:13:00):
Man, Chris, your memory is so freaking good.
(01:13:02):
Yeah, well, that was the highlight of my life.
(01:13:05):
And then come to the next part of the story.
(01:13:07):
And then we get offered this recording contract that was a real recording contract,
(01:13:11):
but not by a label,
(01:13:13):
by this guy that owned this nonprofit.
(01:13:15):
And you definitely did not want to take it.
(01:13:18):
I did, but we made a decision.
(01:13:21):
And it wasn’t just you either.
(01:13:22):
I think we were pretty split.
(01:13:24):
Yeah, I think it was like half and half.
(01:13:25):
It was very much half and half.
(01:13:26):
And I think I definitely understood why we did it.
(01:13:30):
And we already kind of explained just phase of life.
(01:13:32):
We were in a totally different phase of life than the rest of us.
(01:13:34):
But it was a weird thing because it was definitely a moment where we were part of
(01:13:40):
something that was really cool.
(01:13:41):
Right.
(01:13:42):
And then it was just like, all right, well, it was cool.
(01:13:45):
But there’s something else that we’re going to be doing now.
(01:13:48):
Not even like the grass is green or something else is better.
(01:13:50):
It’s going to come along.
(01:13:50):
Just like this cool thing is not going to happen.
(01:13:53):
It’s not going to happen.
(01:13:54):
And that doesn’t mean it wasn’t cool, but it’s just not going to happen.
(01:13:57):
And so I guess we’ll move on, you know?
(01:13:59):
Yeah.
(01:13:59):
It kind of sucked.
(01:14:00):
It does kind of suck, doesn’t it?
(01:14:02):
So to put you on the spot, so we’re going to start a new band.
(01:14:06):
Well, didn’t you guys, like some of you, continue to do a band for a second.
(01:14:09):
It was not very good.
(01:14:11):
What was it called?
(01:14:11):
It had a funny name.
(01:14:12):
Polar Bear Opposites.
(01:14:13):
Okay, I was like, it had a bear in it.
(01:14:14):
It wasn’t that it was bad.
(01:14:15):
It was just it was a bunch of us goofing around, you know?
(01:14:17):
Okay, okay.
(01:14:18):
So the theme song to this podcast is actually one of the Polar Bear Opposite recordings.
(01:14:22):
Is it really?
(01:14:23):
Yeah, if you listen to any As Told By C.S.
(01:14:26):
Beaty, Empire.
(01:14:27):
That’s Polar Bear.
(01:14:29):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
(01:14:30):
I’ll play it right now in the edit.
(01:14:32):
See, now it’s going in the edit.
(01:14:34):
It’s going to be going.
(01:14:35):
This song.
(01:14:36):
And that’s Polar Bear Opposite.
(01:14:37):
That was one of the Polar Bear Opposite recordings.
(01:14:39):
We had this really long.
(01:14:40):
I guess it would be a bridge,
(01:14:44):
but that was back when Breakdowns were really cool,
(01:14:47):
which was like a hardcore bridge as a breakdown.
(01:14:49):
It wasn’t a breakdown, but it was just like, let’s have this long bridge.
(01:14:51):
We had a cool breakdown in Hide and Seek.
(01:14:52):
We did.
(01:14:53):
Yeah, that was the way the drums kicked in.
(01:14:55):
Yeah, that was so cool, dude.
(01:14:57):
Yep.
(01:14:57):
So anyways,
(01:14:58):
yeah,
(01:14:59):
so we did that for a little bit,
(01:15:00):
and then we just kind of all did,
(01:15:01):
like,
(01:15:02):
then I was the guy that went,
(01:15:03):
I’m actually going to start an MBA program,
(01:15:05):
so I don’t think I have time for this.
(01:15:07):
And then we’re like, aw.
(01:15:08):
And then I was the Ben Looters of the polar bear officers.
(01:15:14):
But that was a very it’s very different.
(01:15:15):
But the last time I saw and it’s funny,
(01:15:17):
like I still run into people from our band every once in a while.
(01:15:19):
But the last time I saw Lucy,
(01:15:21):
it was on her plane ride to move to San Diego,
(01:15:25):
which is this crazy.
(01:15:25):
What?
(01:15:26):
She was moving.
(01:15:27):
You have not told me that.
(01:15:28):
She was moving to California.
(01:15:29):
And you saw her on the plane?
(01:15:31):
On the plane while she was moving, which is wild.
(01:15:34):
Yeah.
(01:15:34):
And it was this craziest thing.
(01:15:35):
Like, it was like we did this.
(01:15:36):
I think it might even have been during COVID.
(01:15:37):
I think we might have had masks on.
(01:15:40):
So do you know it was her?
(01:15:42):
Yeah, we pieced it together.
(01:15:43):
We did the triple take, right?
(01:15:44):
Because it’s just the bridge to the nose up.
(01:15:47):
Yeah, would I recognize you if I just saw your creepy eyes?
(01:15:50):
Probably, because you look at pictures of me a lot.
(01:15:53):
That’s true, I do.
(01:15:55):
I hate to admit that.
(01:15:57):
Yeah, you made a lot of money off of that.
(01:15:59):
That’s true.
(01:16:01):
Exactly.
(01:16:02):
More money than I’ve made off of selling my book, I’ll say that.
(01:16:06):
Oh, man.
(01:16:08):
But yeah, I saw her.
(01:16:10):
It was a Southwest flight, so it was back when Southwest still made you the open space.
(01:16:15):
Oh yeah Which just recently changed Yeah so like she sat by In between my wife and
(01:16:19):
I And like we caught up And I don’t even remember Where Paige and I were going But
(01:16:24):
yeah she was on her way Like moving to California It was the craziest thing It was
(01:16:27):
so fun Yeah I think she still is But yeah it was so fun Seeing her for the first
(01:16:31):
time in years And just like This is a person that was like One of my closest
(01:16:35):
friends For that phase of life For that phase of life And now she’s you know Living
(01:16:38):
in a different country Country It might as well be Yeah California We don’t claim
(01:16:42):
California Not like We’re conservatives here Yeah
(01:16:45):
Well,
(01:16:46):
it’s funny,
(01:16:46):
because I also have...
(01:16:48):
You and I have been hanging out more and been working together more,
(01:16:51):
so that’s been fun for me.
(01:16:53):
But then also, I just randomly ran into Whitney over the weekend, Mother’s Day weekend.
(01:16:59):
And she’s a mom now.
(01:17:00):
She has several kids, and she had one of her kids.
(01:17:03):
It was so funny that me and my family ran into her.
(01:17:07):
And then she said...
(01:17:11):
That she just saw me the day before.
(01:17:13):
Yeah, and she had just seen you.
(01:17:14):
It was the first time I had seen her in weeks.
(01:17:16):
I think you were homeless asking for handouts or something.
(01:17:20):
It was a very low point in my life.
(01:17:22):
I was desperately asking anyone to buy my book, and no one did, so I gave Whitney a free copy.
(01:17:27):
You were on the side of the road asking if anyone could figure out how to use this
(01:17:31):
podcast equipment.
(01:17:32):
You’re just holding these cables.
(01:17:35):
It says USB-C is compatible.
(01:17:37):
It says it.
(01:17:39):
There’s all these YouTubers that say it’s so simple.
(01:17:41):
And you don’t even know this Chris but Monday night I don’t think you know this
(01:17:47):
Monday night I show up to Metro Community College to review graphic design
(01:17:51):
portfolios not even thinking about who else might be there but Erin Pilly was one
(01:17:58):
of the designers and I actually hadn’t seen so Erin worked for me for years but she
(01:18:03):
left and she worked at a bunch of other places and now she’s freelancing I haven’t
(01:18:06):
seen Erin in years
(01:18:08):
And it was so cool.
(01:18:09):
We talked and we’re going to be getting lunch this next week.
(01:18:11):
But it’s just kind of fun just thinking about all you guys and running into people
(01:18:16):
and seeing where people are at now.
(01:18:18):
Get the band back together.
(01:18:23):
So, all right.
(01:18:23):
So we’re,
(01:18:24):
I don’t even know how long my podcast is going to be yet,
(01:18:26):
but we’re at,
(01:18:26):
Bob’s was,
(01:18:27):
Uncle Bob’s episode is not this long.
(01:18:28):
All right.
(01:18:29):
So to wrap things up, a few important questions.
(01:18:32):
Who’s your favorite Power Ranger?
(01:18:34):
Oh my goodness.
(01:18:35):
I’m so sheltered, dude.
(01:18:36):
I wasn’t allowed to be in the Power Rangers.
(01:18:38):
All friends were into it and I thought they were like, like forest rangers.
(01:18:42):
Okay.
(01:18:43):
Yeah.
(01:18:43):
I didn’t even know.
(01:18:44):
That explains the purity culture.
(01:18:46):
I would have liked whatever the T-Rex guy.
(01:18:48):
Is that Red?
(01:18:49):
Aren’t they all T-Rex?
(01:18:51):
Is there a guy named Jason?
(01:18:52):
I think.
(01:18:53):
If there is, we’ll go with it.
(01:18:55):
Okay.
(01:18:55):
Okay, so we should probably say something about your book.
(01:18:59):
Ben is the author of Escape from Terikiak.
(01:19:02):
I got a copy right here.
(01:19:03):
Oh my gosh, you just pulled it out.
(01:19:05):
He also has a shrine to my book right behind me.
(01:19:09):
You’re not supposed to say, oh my gosh, you just pulled it out without
(01:19:13):
So I do have one of the original prints of Escape from Tariqiak in my basement.
(01:19:22):
Alright, so I’m going to read a little bit of this.
(01:19:24):
Are you actually?
(01:19:25):
I should hire you to do the audiobook version of my book.
(01:19:28):
Alright, so this is from
(01:19:33):
I don’t even know how to say his last name because I don’t even know who that is
(01:19:36):
Nicholas Fredrickson
(01:19:57):
Jonah Gaffner and Ty Franklin I know Ty Naya Charlotte Wyatt Colburn Faye Amory
(01:20:04):
John Ryan and Calvin these aren’t even real names your editor who I know you’ve
(01:20:08):
never met because you’ve told me that and to the creator Jesus Christ are you
(01:20:12):
missing anyone from that list
(01:20:16):
I would thank you now.
(01:20:17):
You’ll probably be in the acknowledgments of the second book.
(01:20:21):
Okay, good.
(01:20:21):
You weren’t as involved in my life at that time.
(01:20:24):
Just because I wasn’t asked.
(01:20:26):
But I will say, kidding aside, thanks for agreeing to put my kids in the next book.
(01:20:29):
They are super excited about it.
(01:20:32):
And I understand you have a big announcement about book two.
(01:20:35):
I am working on book two.
(01:20:37):
And it’s coming out.
(01:20:38):
You’re going to say that right now on this podcast.
(01:20:40):
It’s ready
(01:20:41):
Dude I want to I do really good with like firm deadlines and when I don’t have one
(01:20:46):
it’s so much harder for me to deliver and so like there’s the part of me that’s
(01:20:50):
like dude Ben just say that it’s coming out like the first of the year or something
(01:20:55):
like that like I could do it like I’m almost done with the first draft a little bit
(01:21:01):
of editing I gotta do the illustrations but like I actually really do like it I
(01:21:06):
think it’s a better I think it’s gonna be a better more interesting book than the
(01:21:09):
first one
(01:21:10):
And um yeah more interesting it does some interesting stuff I’m excited about it
(01:21:15):
but like with all the stuff going on with my business right now and living in my
(01:21:19):
parents basement it’s just been like uh it’s been on the back burner so I need I
(01:21:24):
need to focus on it okay well we’re gonna turn that heat up I should hire you to
(01:21:28):
finish it man you’re like you are so like prolific when you come to like
(01:21:33):
Dude, you’re able to crank stuff out.
(01:21:36):
I cannot keep up with the output that you do.
(01:21:39):
Yeah, clearly, because you’ve never liked anything.
(01:21:41):
No, I don’t.
(01:21:42):
I mean, I can’t even keep up with...
(01:21:44):
I can’t even pretend to like all the stuff that you do.
(01:21:47):
And you don’t.
(01:21:48):
You don’t even try.
(01:21:50):
Neither does anyone else.
(01:21:51):
Uncle Bob’s a big fan, because he’s done about three quarters of the content.
(01:21:55):
Yeah.
(01:21:58):
Yeah so I actually made the mistake I’m writing a book with my aunt and I made the
(01:22:03):
mistake of reading some of it a little bit ago and I went this is really boring so
(01:22:07):
now I’m actually like very depressed about it.
(01:22:09):
Are you really?
(01:22:10):
I mean not overall like the project is like I know I know the content’s good you
(01:22:14):
know like I know the content’s really good but I had this moment where I’m reading
(01:22:17):
some of it thinking like it’s just not there yet and I think like I don’t know if
(01:22:21):
you ever felt that way it’s like writing stuff it’s like
(01:22:24):
It’s not there.
(01:22:25):
I think it will be there.
(01:22:25):
I don’t know how it’s going to get there.
(01:22:27):
And it’s just like this crushing feeling of, oh boy.
(01:22:31):
I thought I would nail it on the first draft.
(01:22:33):
It would be perfect.
(01:22:34):
And I could just make a million dollars.
(01:22:37):
and I guess that’s not how it works see that’s funny like I mean gosh yeah Chris
(01:22:44):
Beaty wrote a book called Loser C.S.
(01:22:46):
Beaty C.S.
(01:22:47):
Beaty oh I’m so sorry I keep on getting so casual with you Clive Staples Beaty
(01:22:51):
Clive Staples Beaty wrote a book called Loser but like it’s so funny you’re such a
(01:22:57):
freaking good writer and all the stuff that I do read which has only been like two
(01:23:00):
things you’ve ever posted you’re really a really good writer
(01:23:05):
But like, yeah, I’ve had that feeling before where like, either, I’ve had it both ways.
(01:23:10):
I’ve had it ways where I’m like, oh man, this is going to be awesome.
(01:23:14):
And then I go back to it, I’m like, what was I smoking?
(01:23:17):
Like, what is, oh, we’ve got a long way to go or no one can ever know about this.
(01:23:22):
And then I had the other way where I’m like,
(01:23:23):
gosh,
(01:23:24):
this thing,
(01:23:25):
I was feeling about,
(01:23:25):
I was feeling this way about book two.
(01:23:28):
Because I’d gotten out of it for a while.
(01:23:29):
I’m like, does this even make sense?
(01:23:32):
What the crap?
(01:23:33):
No one’s going to care.
(01:23:34):
It’s all so... And then I started from the beginning and started rereading it.
(01:23:38):
I’m like,
(01:23:39):
Okay, this is actually pretty good.
(01:23:42):
I’m getting back into it.
(01:23:43):
It’s not there yet.
(01:23:45):
There’s some things that need to be cleaned up.
(01:23:47):
Particularly,
(01:23:48):
I’m dealing with multiple timelines and following more characters in the next book.
(01:23:54):
While I was writing it, I was confusing myself.
(01:23:58):
That’s not easy at all.
(01:24:01):
I’m like, okay, I’ve got to untangle some of this, but I think I recently...
(01:24:05):
By C.S.
(01:24:05):
Beaty C.S.
(01:24:07):
Beaty C.S.
(01:24:07):
Beaty C.S.
(01:24:07):
Beaty C.S.
(01:24:08):
Beaty C.S.
(01:24:08):
Beaty C.S.
(01:24:08):
Beaty C.S.
(01:24:24):
You’re an interesting writer I mean I mainly just read your book but like you know
(01:24:29):
it’s like obviously it’s like you’re telling true stories and it’s autobiographical
(01:24:33):
obviously but you know you have this like ability Chris of like the balance of
(01:24:39):
obviously the humor and
(01:24:41):
The humor and the heart you know like you’re able to tell these these things and
(01:24:46):
there’s there’s things that you deal with in the book too that are really yeah
(01:24:51):
powerful and poignant and you deal with serious stuff but then you also have this
(01:24:55):
like I don’t know it’s just such a cool balance that you have whereas like I don’t
(01:25:02):
know writing a fiction book I’d be interested to see you try to write like a
(01:25:05):
fiction I don’t know if I can well I
(01:25:07):
If you’ve written some fiction, you would know if you actually read your newsletters.
(01:25:12):
It is a different part of the brain.
(01:25:13):
And that’s part of what I’m struggling about writing.
(01:25:15):
The next episode,
(01:25:16):
you should just have me on and force me to read all the stuff that you’re always...
(01:25:19):
Man,
(01:25:20):
you’re...
(01:25:20):
Again,
(01:25:20):
you’re so prolific,
(01:25:21):
dude.
(01:25:21):
You post so much stuff.
(01:25:23):
I wish I had that much in me.
(01:25:25):
Yeah, well, I wish I did too.
(01:25:28):
But it is different.
(01:25:29):
So I’m writing...
(01:25:30):
The book that I’m writing now is very different because I’m writing about my aunt
(01:25:33):
and I’m trying to
(01:25:34):
By C.S.
(01:25:35):
Beaty
(01:25:49):
And I just kind of got very discouraged because I just read a list of facts because
(01:25:52):
that’s what it was.
(01:25:53):
I was taking all this information.
(01:25:54):
You can come and embellish that later, right?
(01:25:56):
Absolutely.
(01:25:56):
And that’s the thing.
(01:25:57):
AI can do that.
(01:25:57):
I know.
(01:25:58):
And it’s like, all I need to do is put it in chat GPT and it’ll be fixed.
(01:26:02):
But it’s just, when stuff’s not perfect the first time, it’s just very frustrating.
(01:26:05):
So anyways, I’ve gotten over that a little bit.
(01:26:08):
And yeah, thanks for making the last part of the podcast about me.
(01:26:12):
That’s the goal, man.
(01:26:13):
That’s the goal.
(01:26:14):
All right, Ben, any other parting thoughts before?
(01:26:17):
I do have a gift for you.
(01:26:18):
Oh, no.
(01:26:19):
So as the honorary podcast guest, you have your pick.
(01:26:24):
So you can either take the collector’s series DVD of Jumanji or the regular DVD of
(01:26:30):
Jumanji because I accidentally bought two.
(01:26:33):
Not knowing that we already had one.
(01:26:34):
So you can pick one.
(01:26:35):
It’s the Robin Williams version of Jumanji.
(01:26:37):
Right.
(01:26:38):
I’ve not seen the new Jumanji.
(01:26:41):
Were you allowed to watch this as a kid?
(01:26:42):
So that’s the funny thing.
(01:26:43):
I did not watch this as a kid and I didn’t know why.
(01:26:45):
I was like, this is about animals, whatever.
(01:26:48):
Then I watched it.
(01:26:48):
I’ve only watched this one time and I think it was as an adult and been like,
(01:26:53):
oh,
(01:26:53):
I couldn’t have handled this.
(01:26:54):
Oh, yeah.
(01:26:55):
It’s freaking scary.
(01:26:56):
Because I tried showing it to Jonah, my oldest son, a few years ago.
(01:26:59):
Well, it was more than a few.
(01:27:01):
He was probably like seven or eight.
(01:27:03):
We started it.
(01:27:04):
Does someone start getting sucked into the game right in the beginning?
(01:27:07):
The very first thing is Robin Williams’ character gets sucked into a jungle and
(01:27:12):
he’s lost forever.
(01:27:13):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
(01:27:14):
His entire family thinks he’s dead.
(01:27:16):
I was like, oh, I can’t even handle this.
(01:27:19):
No, it is a messed up movie.
(01:27:22):
Ever since then, I really want to re-watch it.
(01:27:25):
I’m actually pretty excited about this.
(01:27:27):
I’m kind of old school with the DVDs.
(01:27:28):
What are the differences between these?
(01:27:30):
I have no idea.
(01:27:30):
I bought one after I didn’t realize anything.
(01:27:33):
Which one has the least amount of scratches on the actual DVD?
(01:27:36):
Well, you can see I left the $1 tag.
(01:27:39):
Shout out to the Omaha Public Library Friends of the Library sale where I get all my DVDs.
(01:27:44):
This one’s in good shape.
(01:27:47):
Which one’s worth more on eBay?
(01:27:49):
Well, that one is literally $1 according to the Omaha Library.
(01:27:54):
Let me see.
(01:27:55):
This is collector series.
(01:27:58):
I’m going with the collectors because that sounds really fancy and you know me I’m
(01:28:01):
a little on the fancier side I’m excited to watch this dude okay well next time
(01:28:07):
when we have you for the next guest you can tell me tell me if you held up about
(01:28:12):
Jumanji if you’re allowed to watch it now that I’m living in my parents basement I
(01:28:17):
may have to ask them before I can play this you probably should ask for permission
(01:28:22):
Honestly, it might be.
(01:28:23):
I’m looking at literally your Terikiak cover and the Jumanji cover.
(01:28:26):
It’s like the same thing.
(01:28:27):
And also the Jumanji cover is clearly a ripoff of the Jurassic Park cover.
(01:28:33):
Google that.
(01:28:34):
We don’t have a video podcast.
(01:28:35):
Google the Jumanji cover and then the Jurassic Park gate.
(01:28:39):
It is definitely like... Yeah, it’s inspired.
(01:28:41):
I mean,
(01:28:41):
it’s supposed to be like the board with a rhino running through it,
(01:28:44):
but it’s definitely...
(01:28:44):
Can I see this one here?
(01:28:46):
The funny thing about mine is like...
(01:28:49):
Jumanji and Jumanji twice on it.
(01:28:51):
Oh, totally.
(01:28:52):
Again, how is this not a video podcast?
(01:28:54):
Because it’s the collector’s edition.
(01:28:56):
It’s the collector’s, so they have the air.
(01:28:58):
It definitely is a Jumanji Jumanji there.
(01:29:00):
Jumanji Jumanji.
(01:29:02):
That’s the name of this podcast.
(01:29:05):
All right.
(01:29:06):
And on this note, I’m reading your inscription to you.
(01:29:09):
Oh, no.
(01:29:10):
Paige, thanks so much for your encouragement.
(01:29:12):
He made this out to my wife.
(01:29:14):
Also,
(01:29:15):
if you’re curious,
(01:29:16):
this is my daughter has her bookmark in your book and she stopped reading in
(01:29:19):
chapter five,
(01:29:22):
the waves.
(01:29:23):
Seven, I think is where I tell people it gets good.
(01:29:26):
You gotta get through the doldrums.
(01:29:27):
Yeah, you gotta, when’s the, yeah, talking about, I’m
(01:29:36):
This is not going to be a writing podcast.
(01:29:38):
We can’t even describe our own book.
(01:29:40):
Yeah, we don’t need the terminology.
(01:29:42):
I will say in the second book, one of the good things is it just – yeah, there’s no buildup.
(01:29:46):
It just starts in action.
(01:29:48):
In media race.
(01:29:50):
The moment this book ends, it just starts immediately there from a different vantage point.
(01:29:57):
So it’s kind of fun.
(01:29:57):
In that way, there’s not the buildup of –
(01:30:00):
You don’t have to introduce the characters in the same way,
(01:30:02):
but you have to have a little bit of a recap.
(01:30:05):
Remind myself who the characters are.
(01:30:07):
It’s interesting writing.
(01:30:10):
I’ve never really written a book until now,
(01:30:12):
but writing a series of books is interesting because so much of the first book
(01:30:18):
was...
(01:30:18):
We should probably wrap this up because apparently it’s raining pretty hard and
(01:30:21):
your trunk is open.
(01:30:22):
My trunk is open?
(01:30:23):
Yeah, according to my wife.
(01:30:25):
Seriously?
(01:30:25):
I don’t know.
(01:30:25):
That’s what she said.
(01:30:26):
Why would it be open?
(01:30:27):
I don’t know.
(01:30:28):
Is someone breaking into it?
(01:30:29):
I guess so.
(01:30:29):
What is this neighborhood?
(01:30:30):
Yeah, well, it’s just apparently you got a lot of sweat.
(01:30:35):
Podcast equipment in the back.
(01:30:40):
Anyways, finish your book and then we’ll call it good and you can close your trunk.
(01:30:44):
Yeah, what the heck?
(01:30:45):
She can close the trunk.
(01:30:47):
I swear I didn’t open it.
(01:30:48):
Yeah,
(01:30:49):
I was just going to say the fun part about writing a sequel to a book is that so
(01:30:55):
much of the first book was just trying to figure out who are these characters,
(01:30:57):
what is this place,
(01:30:58):
where the world building is like there’s so much time in that and then the second
(01:31:01):
book is like oh,
(01:31:02):
we’re already set up.
(01:31:04):
It’s just like
(01:31:05):
There’s further world building, but it’s a very different process.
(01:31:10):
I recommend, write a sequel to Loser.
(01:31:13):
My world building was easy.
(01:31:15):
It was, imagine your high school is the same as every other high school.
(01:31:18):
That’s kind of what I was going for.
(01:31:20):
I did have a lot of Grand Island anecdotes, but that’s also any small town, I think.
(01:31:26):
And on that note, buy my book.
(01:31:40):
Interesting People is produced by Chris Beaty in his basement.
(01:31:44):
A very special thanks to Ben Luters for being my first guest and my good friend.
(01:31:49):
You should definitely buy a thousand copies of his book Escape from Terikiak
(01:31:52):
because it’s fantastic.
(01:31:54):
And hey this is a brand new thing but I have a ton of fun people who have agreed to
(01:31:58):
talk to me about their interesting lives and
(01:32:00):
Please subscribe and such and do all that thing and seriously I’m really excited
(01:32:04):
about what’s to come.
(01:32:05):
It’s going to be a lot of fun.
(01:32:07):
Signing off from the greatest city on earth, Omaha, Nebraska.
